Best Simmental Bulls right now

[worthabit]

We received the Remington sale catalogue yesterday and liked the Lock and Load bull. Does anyone think he would be ok on angus heifers and can you buy semen on him?  If not is there a white faced bull you would recommend?

 

[coachmac]

The American Simmental Assoc released Spring 2011 EPDs yesterday. I checked out Grandmaster's and his tanked....a lot. Not too surprising.
 

ditto

 

[firesweepranch]

The American Simmental Assoc released Spring 2011 EPDs yesterday. I checked out Grandmaster's and his tanked....a lot. Not too surprising.
 

ditto

OK, I'll bite. Doesn't tanked mean bad? How did they tank? His CE is 14, MM is 13 and API is 128! That is pretty good if you ask me!

 

[3dfarms]

The American Simmental Assoc released Spring 2011 EPDs yesterday. I checked out Grandmaster's and his tanked....a lot. Not too surprising.
 

ditto

OK, I'll bite. Doesn't tanked mean bad? How did they tank? His CE is 14, MM is 13 and API is 128! That is pretty good if you ask me!

I'm with you FireSweep.  His MM number actually went up from what is posted on Hill Country's website.

Goldmine would be an example of numbers that tanked as his accuracy increased.  Goldmine has thrown some great calves, but his WW and YW numbers are very low and were not like that when he started in stud.

Although Grandmaster fell out of the Top 1% in some categories, he is still a solid choice because his calves are very marketable no matter what avenue you sell them and he can still put some good numbers on a weak EPD'd cow.

 

[coachmac]

are they going to drop more?  first calf numbers mustve been a little inflated, now that there are more offspring, will the epds continue to fall?  if I remember correctly, his YW fell almost 60 points. WW around 40 drop.  Not surprised the numbers fell is what I was ditto'n. 

 

[LN]

From when they first started promoting Grandmaster as having a 100+ YW EPD to now a 44....yes the growth numbers tanked and the CE EPD came down 6 points too. I thought his numbers were too good to be true and they were. He also had a 154 API which is now down to 128, which isn't bad, but his EPDs were definitely inflated.

 

[LostFarmer]

This can happen real easy.  Numbers are real easy to inflate.  You breed epd to epd then put the calves on creep the day they are born out of high growth milky cows.  You can inflate those numbers.  Control the cow selection that the bull gets bred too and you have manufactured some numbers.  Then the bull gets used on many cows under many management situations and you will have a drop int he epd's.  In the dairy world we also have a repeatability number that is tied to the number of herds and the number of tested offspring.  If I see a bull with 3 or 4 herds then I am suspect of the numbers.  Same game gets played with beef bulls.  You don't breed numbers you breed cows.  My big pet peeve is the lack of breeders to look at the cow and make mating decisions instead of a computer program spitting out a mating.  Doesn't mean the numbers shouldn't be looked at as part of the picture but too often numbers are the only picture.  I will now climb off my soapbox and leave it to the experts.  LF 

 

[husker1]

Grandmaster's crazy numbers had everyone excited (those who play the #'s game), because he was the outlier...Extreme growth with plenty of maternal and calving ease bred in.  Now the explosive growth nubmers are gone.

But, the fact remains that he should produce offpring that work...with his proven pedigree.  You just won't benefit from the extreme growth numbers on paper.

 

[LostFarmer]

I like the bull and will use him to make some females but I will use him because I like him not just his numbers.  LF

 

[Sammy]

I like the bull and will use him to make some females but I will use him because I like him not just his numbers.  LF

Agree - before anyone decides to use or not use him, look at the new photos of him on the Select Sires website, particularly the butt view - if there is a purebred out there with more power in a calving ease/maternal package please let me know what that bull is so I can use him - think of what he can do for some ordinary cows that need some hip and shape - how many other semen companies give you a butt shot of a Simmental or any bull for that matter?

 

[3dfarms]

I like the bull and will use him to make some females but I will use him because I like him not just his numbers.  LF

Agree - before anyone decides to use or not use him, look at the new photos of him on the Select Sires website, particularly the butt view - if there is a purebred out there with more power in a calving ease/maternal package please let me know what that bull is so I can use him - think of what he can do for some ordinary cows that need some hip and shape - how many other semen companies give you a butt shot of a Simmental or any bull for that matter?

I agree, here is the link.  http://www.selectsiresbeef.com/index.php?option=com_php&Itemid=114&id=101&breed=Simmental

There is a video on there too of Grandmaster daughters.  I don't think they will disappoint anyone.

 

[aandtcattle]

Very good thread people, I have enjoyed it immensely but am kind of disappointed that nobody has mentioned TNT Jumpstart.  Maybe he is too vanilla or commercial oriented but I used him a bunch last spring and cannot wait to get these calves.  He has everything I was seeking.  82 pound actual birthweight, 812 205 day weight, 1484 at yearling in a 6.0 frame package.  He ranks in the top 1% for CE, 4% for BW, 1% Marb., 4% REA and 1% API at 156.8!  He is a HC Hummer son out of a Shear Force daughter, solid black (homozygous black too) and $15/straw.  After putting all this with the way his calves "hide" the simmi with their sleek front ends and tidy appearance, I felt he was a no-brainer.  Any thoughts???????????????

 

[3dfarms]

In the numbers game Jump Start is a great bull.  I haven't seen progeny out of him so I can't speak much past what we see in pictures and on paper.  He is a clean fronted bull.  Only thing I would dock him on is he is a little light back through his flank.  He might be stouter than the pictures show.  Let us know how your calves turn out, he may be that bull we should all be using but have just over looked.

 

[LinZ]

http://www.universalsemensales.com/detail_simmental.php?simmental_id=223


Haven't ever heard of Jumpstart til you brought him up but personally after looking at his picture.. for me.. he lacks muscle, perhaps a tick bold shouldered, no depth.. and I(again my opinion) don't like his tailhead set, weak topped, slightly rounder hipped and I don't care for how his neck sits into his shoulder.

I would agree that he's probably a bit too commercial and therefore might be why he wasn't mentioned sooner..

If you're looking at EPD's his growth epds concern me a bit..

JMHO,
LinZ

 

[VVCC]

Just commented on the 680S thread but.... 680S is a bull that put more muscle and body, consistently than any other Simmental bull I can remember.  He, himself, has a little more throat but his calves don't seem to.  A son was Champion bull at Agribition in Canada and was nice fronted and one of the best yearling Simmental bulls I've seen.  

 

[aandtcattle]

In the numbers game Jump Start is a great bull.  I haven't seen progeny out of him so I can't speak much past what we see in pictures and on paper.  He is a clean fronted bull.  Only thing I would dock him on is he is a little light back through his flank.  He might be stouter than the pictures show.  Let us know how your calves turn out, he may be that bull we should all be using but have just over looked.

I will definitely keep you posted on the calves we get out of him.  They will be out of either registered angus or angus x shorthorn cows.

 

[88AG]

Bump

 

[88AG]

Any new opinions

 

[Gargan]

i would add upgrade, fat butt, chopper, lock n load, hoc broker, and rendition to the list

 

[cattleman25]

has anyone used excalibur?  whats the calves like and what kind of cows would you use him on?