black bull on a soild white horn?

[wowcows]

Bred a soild white horn heifer this morning to a Lowline bull. Then thought! Don't really want any greys. Her sire and dam are both colored up pretty good. What should I expect? I know horns are like Christmas but don't know how this works and know you Shorthorn guys can help with this.

 

[FutureBreeder2013]

Blue roan is a possible outcome.

 

[shortyjock89]

You surely won't get a grey out of a white Shorthorn and a black Lowline bull.  Now if you use a Lowline bull on a Charolais cow, you could get a smoke (I have one). 

 

[wowcows]

Yeah, I know about the Charolais thing and the Simmi thing and black but didn't know what about the Horns. That is why I am asking the experts! <beer>

 

[Shady Lane]

Like Mr Olson said you won't get a grey because Shorthorns don't carry the dilluter gene.

A blue roan is a likely possibility but I have seen solid black calves out of white shorthorns mated with black cattle, it could end up loud coloured or may just have a few white hairs in it's brisket or tail seems to often be common as well.

 

[sue]

Like Mr Olson said you won't get a grey because Shorthorns don't carry the dilluter gene.

A blue roan is a likely possibility but I have seen solid black calves out of white shorthorns mated with black cattle, it could end up loud coloured or may just have a few white hairs in it's brisket or tail seems to often be common as well.

yep. Shadylane I have seen this happen. Solid Black bull but throws blue calves consistantly for the folks that use him back on black cows??  You're right about christmas/SH

 

[ROMAX]

There is a possibility of a gray calf-thats how the MURRAY GREY breed got started.

 

[shortyjock89]

There is a possibility of a gray calf-thats how the MURRAY GREY breed got started.

ONE cow that may or may not be purebred Shorthorn......still skeptical about that.

 

[oakbar]

I'm pretty sure that technically you'll get a blue roan because if the cow is white she carries the roan gene on both sides.    Now, as some have already said, it could be a light colored blue roan or it could be a black calf with just a few white hairs on the tail, midline between the hind quarters, or on the throat and face.  We have a white cow that was bred to Hannibal this year that gave us a dark reddish brown calf that will shed out almost pure black except for the areas I've mentioned.  We've actually had better success getting well marked blue roans out of our strawberry roan cows than we have out of our white ones.  Go figure!!    Shorties are like a box of chocolates---you just never know what you're gonna get!!!

 

[oakbar]

Oh, by the way, we had a white shorthorn bull that threw calves that were always the same body color as the mother but would usually have a white or roan tail even if the rest of the animal was completely black or red.  He even threw a completely black calf with a white tail out of a grey Who Made Who heifer.  The same grey cow has now been bred to black bulls three times and always produced a red calf.  This year she has a red and white Monopoly calf at her side, her full sister has a black and white Monopoly calf, and another full sister has a grey and white Monopoly calf.  All the cows are the grey or chocolate colored.  Interesting color genetics at work here!!

 

[thunderdownunder]

There is a possibility of a gray calf-thats how the MURRAY GREY breed got started.

That was one particular Shorthorn cow. And yes, she was a purebred.

ETA- sorry, slight over reaction!

 

[Shady Lane]

Not discrediting the validity or purebred status of your statement at all, just making conversation, but one thing that always makes me wonder or even raise an eyebrow is when a particular gene or trait is found in one animal that is not common to that breed but is found in many other breeds, I stop and wonder where that trait came from?

IE: TH in shorthorns tracing back through the improver lineage, or dilluter through this Murray Grey foundation cow.


Caveat; I am by no means an expert on the Murray Grey breed!

I'm just asking how come this cow had this gene when it is not found in other Shorthorns? Where did she get it from?

  Makes me think back to double muscled purebred SH calves that we ahd years ago when I was a kid, these calves were Purebred, "Non Appendix" lineage yet showed obvious double muscling traits.


Makes me scratch my head.

 

[wowcows]

Lets all not forget all the foxes that are in or have been in the hen house. We all know they are there and have been! Some have just sliped thru without question because of who the owner is/was or that the breeders in that breed thought that this was something that the breed needed.

 

[shortyjock89]

Hey Shady Lane- We had two double muscled calves in one year. Both our of our Waukaru Gold Mine 2109 son and one  asterisk free cow/ I don't know if the other was asterisk free, but she was purebred. One out of RB Eagle 148 and one out of JA Wellington. 

I still don't know how you'd even know if that Murray Grey matriarch was purebred. It was over a hundred years ago.  I know that my Shorthorn cows have other stuff in them, almost exclusively Maine...but they still have the purebred papers.

 

[thunderdownunder]

I still don't know how you'd even know if that Murray Grey matriarch was purebred. It was over a hundred years ago. 

Actually, it's only just over a hundred years ago since the first Murray Grey's appeared at "Thologolong" in 1905. The Sutherland family, who developed the breed, still breed them and I actually have a bit to do with them, and they have told me that it was indeed a pure Shorthorn (depsite the fact I've had Galloway breeders try to tell me it was a Galloway cow - even though there weren't any Galloways in the country at that stage!).
The first registry wasn't set up until 1962-63.

 

[aj]

Could they have come over the Bering straight at a earlier date. We would need a good bone sample of a skeleton and a radio 14 carbon date.