bull pic to rip apart

[blackdiamond]

He turned 12 months in Jan


So is a Jan calf a spring or outlier. I dont think you are keeping your BS straight.
On your reg #s you posted earlier also you have another Jan and then a May. Sure thats not all year.

I didn't raise those other calves- the Jans, Mays... notice, they don't have my prefix...

We get a few Julys- those are the cows that breed back a month early, notice my post above said it had a couple of summer borns- one a heifer bought, the other a july that was an odd ball.

not that I care to explain anything to you=- notice I could care less what you say,

 

[blackdiamond]

you have posted your solid red bull on here more times then I have ever been on this site I think....

YOU MEAN THE RED MAINE BULL?  YA, I THINK IT'S DAMN HARD TO FIND A ROAN MAINE.

 

[knabe]

- notice I could care less what you say,

Jody, you are increasing the number of people who say that.

 

[JTM]

Since your asking I will chime in. I'm not a fan of either bull. The first one is too clubby and too feminine and the second one is too clubby and too feminine. I think you need to use heifers that you get out of that breeding and breed them to some solid red Shorthorn bulls.  Insert self promotion here. But seriously, I've seen some calves similar to your second bull calf. They make good feeding steers that taste good and good heifers that turn into good cows but they need to be bred one more time Shorthorn with some masculinity in order to get closer to where I think they need to be. That's my opinion.  (thumbsup)

 

[Quick fire]

you have posted your solid red bull on here more times then I have ever been on this site I think....

YOU MEAN THE RED MAINE BULL?  YA, I THINK IT'S DAMN HARD TO FIND A ROAN MAINE.

But red is boring...

 

[jaimiediamond]

Another picture to shred apart- took this morning out in the lot.  Sun was shining, and he didn't have a ton of mud in him. 

Attached a straight from behind view too-- for those of you who think one foot forward from the 3/4 rear view- yields an upside down triangle..  O wait, it does-- until you look straight from behind.

Although, he's not the most muscular bull in the world- I' think there is plenty their for a heifer bull.



Disposition, is awesome- 2 times a halter on, he's broke enough to lead through the yard- ask my feed guy! 

How old is this calf?

He turned 12 months in Jan.  I put a halter on him for the first time the week before christmas... and the 2nd time last weekend when he was rough clipped. 

He has been with 10 heifers for almost 2 months now. 

He is on a grass bale, and a worn out stalk field- actually--this is what it looks like, and two of the heifers in with him...

Since you asked us to I have evaluated him as a yearling bull, in all honesty better care would give a better impression of your program.  The two year old heifer you have posted we have seen as a baby calf, then as a impressive bred, and now she looks terrible after weaning her first calf.  Hopefully its just due to her putting everything into the calf and in a month she looks like a different animal. With this being said I am ever prepared for you to attack me for giving the opinion you asked for and no doubt some excuses.

 

[justintime]

I just read this thread from the start and I must say I am overwhelmed with questions.. First, what circumstances would require anyone to turn a 12 month old bull out with 40 cows to breed, especially this bull. He appears to be  very feminine and very unsound in this picture. I am also not super impressed with some of the offspring you have shown as they appear to be pretty hard doing critters, and if so, why would you use this bull for this many years?  I will say that I do think this bull must  be sounder than he looks in the first picture. He appears to be bow legged and very unsound in his leg structure in the first picture, and if he was indeed made like this picture suggests, there is no way he could service cows for 6 or 7 years as you have stated. His legs would go out from under him.

When I read all of your posts Jody, I have many  questions on your knowledge of basic cow economics. I find many of things you say you are doing in your so called breeding program, go against all logic in economic production and economic cow herd management practices. I feel sorry for your cows, and I feel sorry for anyone who follows the knowledge you post in these threads.

 

[Doc]

With your admittedly poor heat checking protocol.

That's what bulls are for... 

Confidence in your own genetics...

I'm not the only one who believes in bulls-- if I have to pay for them- may as well use them.

I've got great confidence in my own genetics.  I'd go so far as to say that I'd rather use my bull (read:herd sire) than all but just a very select few Shorthorn bulls out there.  We have all but stopped with AI'ing our cows.  This year we are putting in embryos exclusively from our own cows for the first time ever. Anything that doesn't settle an embryo the first time gets bred by the bull.  Odds are, the resulting calves will at least be a very superior feeder calf.

In regards to your program pushing for early-maturing cattle with growth and skeletal width, good luck. Genetics are not on your side on that deal.  Cull your bull calves harder, buy a bull from Kaper, Sneeds, or Lovings.

I'll stick to Redline and the Maines=no offense to those three programs, but not my cup of tea, I don't mind the birthweight- and want more hip shape.  Red bores me, matter of fact, every solid red on the place is getting bred to redline- then those heifers to the Ali bull-- and eventually working them up to purebred Red Maine status. 

You say you are heading towards purebred Maines, but yet in your footnotes in the Midwest sale catalog that came out today you say that "the only reason why I'm selling this plus heifer is because we are heading back to purebreds". If you are going all Maine thru a breeding up program, then why sell one that is as good as you say she is?
Also, for someone that is so anti showring , you sure tout the showring accomplishments of granddams, great cousins, etc.,etc. of your cattle that you are selling.

 

[ejoe326]

Not to mention the irony of pushing these cattle on a site where he's attempted to insult and belittle everyone because of his superior cattle, management, hard work, etc.

I don't recall going to a breed or show sale where the buyers were looking for compensatory gain on their replacement heifers.  Hopefully the cattle look a lot better in person.

 

[Doc]

Here's a link to the catalog.  http://www.shorthorncountry.net/image/2013/salecatalogs/Midwest%20Shorthorn%20Spec_Clear%20Focus.pdf

 

[pf]

He covered 40 cows as a 12 month old ?

Sorry,did I hear of a yearling bull breeding 40 cows..... ??? he must be quite a bull.

 

[blackdiamond]

Not to mention the irony of pushing these cattle on a site where he's attempted to insult and belittle everyone because of his superior cattle, management, hard work, etc.

I don't recall going to a breed or show sale where the buyers were looking for compensatory gain on their replacement heifers.  Hopefully the cattle look a lot better in person.

HEre is what the sale calves look like in person.

Doc- focus to purebred, maine or shorthorn...  I've never seen a purebred blue roan. You'll have to refresh my memory-- other than the champion bull from MO-- I don't remember talking about any other show winners? 

Keep them coming..  You people kill me...  I'm enjoying it.

 

[blackdiamond]

Two more for the wolves... and ass rippings much appreciated on the many other pics I've posted on this thread.

 

[blackdiamond]

Hello???

 

[Doc]

Not to mention the irony of pushing these cattle on a site where he's attempted to insult and belittle everyone because of his superior cattle, management, hard work, etc.

I don't recall going to a breed or show sale where the buyers were looking for compensatory gain on their replacement heifers.  Hopefully the cattle look a lot better in person.

HEre is what the sale calves look like in person.

Doc- focus to purebred, maine or shorthorn...  I've never seen a purebred blue roan. You'll have to refresh my memory-- other than the champion bull from MO-- I don't remember talking about any other show winners? 

Keep them coming..  You people kill me...  I'm enjoying it.

You are incorrect. You're not showing us these cattle in person. None of us are there, so maybe you are showing us updated pics.
The Jan. heifer doesn't look too bad. Is she clean? She's not registered , so I can't look it up to see if she has been tested. What are your herdbulls that someone has a choice of 2 straws of semen on?
You are correct, neither myself nor anyone else has ever seen a purebred blue roan. Didn't say I have. But the point I was trying to make was if you are breeding all your cows up to purebred Maine status, then what does it matter if you start with a blue roan. If she is so good that she shouldn't be leaving your place, then why do it?
Is that ringworm on your bull around the tailhead area? I've been lucky this year and haven't had any.

 

[shortyjock89]

Jody, you asked for this. I'm confused about it all.  If your cattle are so superior, why do you care what people on the internet say? In fact, if you're happy with them, who cares? The issue I take is when you act in a way that puts people down for doing as they wish with their own cattle.

In my opinion (which may be worth what it costs....nothing), your cattle are close to average from a phenotypically ideal standpoint.  They exhibit some good qualities, but lack apparent soundness. They're also kind of all over the board as far as body type and consistency.  Your young bulls have more "look" than many of your heifers, and your heifers are wider than your bulls a lot of times. Just purely comparing them to one another, they are pretty androgynous.  One thing that IS consistent is that I'd be a little concerned about the foot design in these cattle. Most of them appear to be short in that joint, and walk on the outside of their foot, leading to them having an awkward looking hock, and it probably causes them to "tuck" their pins when in motion.  If you're looking to create cattle that reach reproductive maturity at an earlier age and can keep a better BCS on less feed, you need to look at downsizing your average cow and infuse your herd with some more commercial genetics. Using Kool, Double Stuff, and their derivatives will continue to be a pain in your rear for your perceived vision.

 

[blackdiamond]

Not to mention the irony of pushing these cattle on a site where he's attempted to insult and belittle everyone because of his superior cattle, management, hard work, etc.

I don't recall going to a breed or show sale where the buyers were looking for compensatory gain on their replacement heifers.  Hopefully the cattle look a lot better in person.

HEre is what the sale calves look like in person.

Doc- focus to purebred, maine or shorthorn...  I've never seen a purebred blue roan. You'll have to refresh my memory-- other than the champion bull from MO-- I don't remember talking about any other show winners? 

Keep them coming..  You people kill me...  I'm enjoying it.

You are incorrect. You're not showing us these cattle in person. None of us are there, so maybe you are showing us updated pics.
The Jan. heifer doesn't look too bad. Is she clean? She's not registered , so I can't look it up to see if she has been tested.
4193150  clean.. doesn't need tested.



What are your herdbulls that someone has a choice of 2 straws of semen on?
Redline, Max, Gates, Spoiler, will have Grand Slam and Line Cruiser, and maybe the Ethanol bull- pushing Redline semen the hardest.  

You are correct, neither myself nor anyone else has ever seen a purebred blue roan. Didn't say I have. But the point I was trying to make was if you are breeding all your cows up to purebred Maine status, then what does it matter if you start with a blue roan. If she is so good that she shouldn't be leaving your place, then why do it?
I'm starting with only the solid red shorthorns.  I want solid red maines- no spots--  Have people wanting solid red bulls, but don't want the Maine socks...

Is that ringworm on your bull around the tailhead area? I've been lucky this year and haven't had any.
No ringworm I'm aware of- look again, best guess is mud.

 

[blackdiamond]

Jody, you asked for this. I'm confused about it all.  If your cattle are so superior, why do you care what people on the internet say? In fact, if you're happy with them, who cares? The issue I take is when you act in a way that puts people down for doing as they wish with their own cattle.

In my opinion (which may be worth what it costs....nothing), your cattle are close to average from a phenotypically ideal standpoint.  They exhibit some good qualities, but lack apparent soundness. They're also kind of all over the board as far as body type and consistency.  Your young bulls have more "look" than many of your heifers, and your heifers are wider than your bulls a lot of times. Just purely comparing them to one another, they are pretty androgynous.  One thing that IS consistent is that I'd be a little concerned about the foot design in these cattle. Most of them appear to be short in that joint, and walk on the outside of their foot, leading to them having an awkward looking hock, and it probably causes them to "tuck" their pins when in motion.  If you're looking to create cattle that reach reproductive maturity at an earlier age and can keep a better BCS on less feed, you need to look at downsizing your average cow and infuse your herd with some more commercial genetics. Using Kool, Double Stuff, and their derivatives will continue to be a pain in your rear for your perceived vision.

You are pretty correct- low5 frame is my ideal cow- and most of these heifers are going to be close to that. 

I'm not gearing to make the great ones- just building blocks. 

My posting of opinions is for shear pleasure. 

 

[Doc]

You are incorrect. You're not showing us these cattle in person. None of us are there, so maybe you are showing us updated pics.
The Jan. heifer doesn't look too bad. Is she clean? She's not registered , so I can't look it up to see if she has been tested.
4193150  clean.. doesn't need tested.

That reg.# sure doesn't match the pedigree in the catalog. Says in the catalog she is out of a Dble Vsn dtr. If that the case , then she could be a dble carrier.

 

[blackdiamond]

You are incorrect. You're not showing us these cattle in person. None of us are there, so maybe you are showing us updated pics.
The Jan. heifer doesn't look too bad. Is she clean? She's not registered , so I can't look it up to see if she has been tested.
4193150  clean.. doesn't need tested.

That reg.# sure doesn't match the pedigree in the catalog. Says in the catalog she is out of a Dble Vsn dtr. If that the case , then she could be a dble carrier.

Hadn't noticed that- actually that's the first I've seen the catalog. 
I've never used DV in my life, and don't intend on it. 
I'm going to look that cow up, and see who really owns her, cuz I don't. 
Thanks for pointing out the mistake Doc.