Bull Promotion- Controlled or UNcontrolled?

[red]

thanks Brad! You gave some excellent points. Too often cattle want a be's feel they have to give their opinions & most of the time they aren't flattering. I'm not saying that anyone that posted on the previous thread is in that category but I've seen it time & time again.
I'd think you'd have to have a very thick skin to promote a bull. I sure couldn't do it!  :

Red

 

[jbh]

thanks Brad! You gave some excellent points. Too often cattle want a be's feel they have to give their opinions & most of the time they aren't flattering. I'm not saying that anyone that posted on the previous thread is in that category but I've seen it time & time again.
I'd think you'd have to have a very thick skin to promote a bull. I sure couldn't do it!  :

Red

You doin' alright Red?  Gonna be at the OH Beef Expo this year?

 

[red]

thanks Brad! You gave some excellent points. Too often cattle want a be's feel they have to give their opinions & most of the time they aren't flattering. I'm not saying that anyone that posted on the previous thread is in that category but I've seen it time & time again.
I'd think you'd have to have a very thick skin to promote a bull. I sure couldn't do it!  :

Red

You doin' alright Red?  Gonna be at the OH Beef Expo this year?

thanks Brad! I have good days, bad days & even worse days. I'm hoping that we make it this year. Not selling anything so i can have some time looking!

 

[knabe]

maybe this is an ignorant question, but can one go look at the bulls at these club calf bull promoters, and choose by looking around?

i've seen a couple leased for pasture use.

or do you just say what your're interested in and they are shipped to you?

 

[chambero]

I can't say I've been to a ton of places to look at bulls, but I have been to Kris Black's and Griswold's and they'll show you anything they have on the place, including mature bulls in their "everyday clothes". 

As we got started trying to sell show steers, the worst mistake we ever made was letting people look at the calves while they were young, unclipped, and still on momma.  90% never come back because they just don't know what they are looking at.  As much as I would like to see mature bull photos, I know why it's not done.  That's also the very reason I don't understand the reluctance on videos at Denver.

Cattle have to be super fat and super dolled up to sell - period.  People will not buy them (or their semen or embryos) if you can't show them a photo like that.

I still don't think most of these bulls are as bad as they are made out to be from a real world stand point. 

 

[farwest]

Your right chambero. My easiest keeping females are who's and windsors up against angus and gelveigh

 

[klintdog]

I'm like Road Warrior on this one, I have 0 experience in the clubby arena, my experience comes from the purebred side. The purebred arena has it's big players who pull in loads of cattle as well. Look at Express, Magness, or any of the other large breeders that pull in to Denver. People will tend to gravitate to these stalls because there is a large number of cattle there and a higher probability of finding a good one. This year in Denver we were stalled next to a breeder who had 25 some animals in the show. We had 5.

The fact of the matter is that the people who matter will still find the good ones. We've been the talk of the barn before and only had 3 head there. The thought that the guys who pull a ton of cattle in are the ones ruining the business doesn't fly with me. People will always vote with their eyes and their pocketbook. If you're not impressed with a bull, don't buy his semen or hang around his stalls. If you find a bull owned by a smaller breeder that you like - buy his semen, tell your friends. This is still a game that anyone can play and do quite well at.

 

[Dusty]

I don't care if you only have one good one.  Whether that be a steer, a cow or a bull.  I don't care where you are at.  There are people that make their living finding good ones and they are good at what they do. If you have a good one people will find it.

 

[klintdog]

I don't care if you only have one good one.  Whether that be a steer, a cow or a bull.  I don't care where you are at.  There are people that make their living finding good ones and they are good at what they do. If you have a good one people will find it.

You said in 4 sentences what I took 2 paragraphs to say

 

[GONEWEST]

Brad, would agree with the statement that tons of these good looking bulls never sire many good calves and that bulls you'd never want to see, like Hannibal, sire lots of 'em? The proof is in the pudding. That's why I think this is a big deal over nothing.

 

[aj]

In my opinion 80% of show cattle are a joke to start with. Number one you have to use cattle with genetic defects in order to compete. Very few of these cattle survive in the real world. Its kinda like raising race horses. They have no economical value except entertain the folk. Looking at photos and videos are a joke period. They are usually glamour photos. You cannot judge cattle by videos or pictures period.PERIOD  It is the times in which we live,high technology. Pictures are joke period.Videos are a joke period. PERIOD. They are fun to watch and look at but they are a joke.PERIOD. (dog) (dog)

 

[CPL]

In my opinion 80% of show cattle are a joke to start with. Number one you have to use cattle with genetic defects in order to compete. Very few of these cattle survive in the real world. Its kinda like raising race horses. They have no economical value except entertain the folk. Looking at photos and videos are a joke period. They are usually glamour photos. You cannot judge cattle by videos or pictures period.PERIOD  It is the times in which we live,high technology. Pictures are joke period.Videos are a joke period. PERIOD. They are fun to watch and look at but they are a joke.PERIOD. (dog) (dog)

I beg to differ.

Random photos from google images:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Hereford_bull_large.jpg
http://www.claypoolpollherefords.com.au/Portals/12/cpSIRES/Superstar.jpg

Using simply a PICTURE of the above two bulls it is VERY EASY to see which is the more ideal animal. That is not a joke that is using an accurate representation of the animal and analyzing it. Now if you were to say making crucial breeding decisions based on photos or videos was a joke I could agree with you, but for you to flat out say that photos/videos of animals are a flat out joke I think is absurd.

 

[aj]

Okay, I stand corrected. Please send me 200 units of each fly by night,one year wonder,5 way cross,bomb out DENVER "DISPLAY BULL" that was on display. Especially the one ones that are dead at 15 months of age cause they were fed to death.(Seriously...your point is well taken.) My concern is the birth weight and hypo nutritional program that they are on. Give me a video of someone weighing the new baby calf with the scales reading the birthweight. Can't we all just get along.

 

[CPL]

Okay, I stand corrected. Please send me 200 units of each fly by night,one year wonder,5 way cross,bomb out DENVER "DISPLAY BULL" that was on display. Especially the one ones that are dead at 15 months of age cause they were fed to death.(Seriously...your point is well taken.)

I could be wrong, but in my opinion 200 units is a "crucial breeding decision".

 

[aj]

I'll agree.

 

[knabe]

for others, 200 units is merely sampling.

 

[aj]

I'll agree.

 

[aj]

I apologize. It just hit me kinda funny to hear steer jocks sitting around discussing integrity.I'll shut up now. (pop)

 

[olsun]

In my opinion it is no more of a joke to use photos and vidios as part of a selection process than it is for people to use only EPDs to select cattle. Did it ever occur that good looking cattle can also be good commercial cattle. In our local livestock sales the buyers still look at cattle before they buy them.Guess what.........Superior livestock sells cattle on vidios.JMHO

 

[shortyjock89]

Olsun- I agree with you big time.  HOW many people in the commercial deal (cough, ANGUS, cough) use EPD's as their SOLE means of selection?  At least with pics and videos, you can see what a calf SHOULD look like, with EPD's, you don't even see the animal.