Butte Lee Coronet 13th

[Willow Springs]

I came across this Shorthorn bull in a customers tank the other day. Cane code is 29SS1, but ABS in Wisconsin doesn't have any record of him. looked on CLRC and only a few females were ever registered from him; including one at Muridale. Anyone know anyhting about him?

Here is his link at CLRC:

http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/pedigree.cgi?_breedcode=MS&_countrycode=&_association=21&_regnumberprefix=M&_regnumber=424957&_regnumbersuffix=

 

[oakview]

I don't know how much you found on the Canadian Shorthorn Association website, but there are about 30 calves recorded sired by Butte Lee Coronet 13th on the ASA website from a wide variety of breeders.  It looks like he was owned by BC AI Center, All-West Breeders, and Kinnaber (I assume this is the Kinnaber Farm owned by the Gordons, owner of his grandsire, TPS Coronet Leader 21st)  I don't recall his sire, Butte Lee Bold Leader off hand, but I can look through some of my old magazines and see if there was a picture of either bull in an old Butte Lee ad.  I remember lots of Butte Lee Leader bulls, Leader's Image, Leader 45th, 56th, 63rd, etc., but Bold Leader doesn't ring a bell right now.  Coronet 13th has some Brandon breeding on the dam's side and I seem to remember them as perhaps a government research farm in Manitoba.  Been a long time, so I'll need to do some digging to make sure of that.  Somebody somewhere would probably like to get ahold of that semen.

If anybody ever finds some Kinnaber Mr. Thiemann, he was one of my favorite Leader 21 bulls.  Stouts had one I really liked, too.  Kinnaber Leader 26th maybe. 

 

[Willow Springs]

I checked with BCAI (now Westgen - Semex). They had a pedigree cert and a hand wirtten note on that stating "very big bull", but no picture ar any other stats. He must've been big for a British breed bull at that time anyway, as they bought him in 1969.

 

[oakview]

Bulls that weighed 2,000 pounds were considered very large at that time, so it's hard telling how big he actually would be by today's standards.  I still remember ads from that era stating people were interested in "the 2nd 1,000 pounds more than the first."  Leader 21st was the bull of the day leading the type change to the larger framed cattle.  You may recall sons and grandsons going by the names of George the Giant and Wilt the Stilt, among others.  Funny how now he is being promoted as a down sizer.  Everybody had a Canadian bred bull back then, trying to get that size and growth.  Now, everybody wants a Canadian bull to moderate their herd and get more fleshing ability.  I would wager that, over the past 40 years, the people have changed more than the cattle. 

 

[justintime]

Butte Lee Coronet 13th has a pretty unique pedigree. Hi dam was from the Brandon Research station Purebred Shorthorn herd  and this herd along with the Indian Head Research Station, in Saskatchewan were closed herds for many generations. These cattle were selected primarily on their performance and they were bigger than most other cattle in the breed at that time.

I saw Coronet 13th at Edgar Philpott's Butte Lee herd when he was a yearling. He was a pretty good bull... for that time. His biggest fault to me at that time was that he could have used a little more rear quarter. Other than that he was a pretty solid made bull. He was sold to BCAI  which was a semen center in British Columbia, and most of their cliente were dairy breeders. At that time, BCAI was a separate stud on the west coast of Canada and it was mainly because of this that Coronet 13th was not used much in the breed> BCAI did not promote him other than in their own semen catalog, and many breeders did not even know that he existed. When he was an older bull, BCAI went into an agreement with several other studs across Canada and they shared semen between each other. It was mainly then that Coronet 13th saw some more use.
His dam was straight horned breeding so he did leave some horned calves.

 

[oakview]

JIT:  Find some semen on this bull, Kinnaber Mr. Thiemann.  I'd use him in a minute.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

JIT:  Find some semen on this bull, Kinnaber Mr. Thiemann.  I'd use him in a minute.// Got that right-hes a cool looking dude O0

 

[justintime]

JIT:  Find some semen on this bull, Kinnaber Mr. Thiemann.  I'd use him in a minute.

Oakview... check with Martin Nold in South Dakota. I'm not sure if he would have any or not, but it seems to me that he purchased an interest in Mr Thieman. I have not talked with Doc Nold in many years, but I was recently told he is still going and still has most of his Shorthorn semen. I believe possession of Mr Thieman was sold to an outfit called Smip Ranch, at Olds, Alberta. They existed for a few short years and then dropped off the face of the earth. I do not recall them ever having a dispersal so I don't know if the cattle all went to market or what happened. I doubt if there is any Mr Thieman semen in Canada, so am thinking one of Nold's tanks may be the best bet.

 

[scotland]

Coronet's maternal side made up of big dual purpose cows bred to the small framed Killearn bulls. Iona's and Rosewoods cows had many outstanding ROP milk records and Brandon, Indian Head and Lacombe. Behind the Butte Lee cows was similar dual purpose breeding.

 

[RyanChandler]

Can anyone post some pics of what the "big dual purpose cows"  of the time looked like? 

 

[scotland]

the white legged cow is a Rosewood taken at 7yrs of age , the roan is an Iona at 9yrs of age taken at Lacombe

 

[GM]

Can anyone post some pics of what the "big dual purpose cows"  of the time looked like?

I'm picturing something like this...

And, that white bull is awesome!  Of all the grainy, black & white, retro bulls everyone is using I think his picture is as good or better than any of them

 

[RyanChandler]

Those haumont cows sure aren't what I picture when I hear " big, dual purpose."  That's why a frame of reference is so important.

 

[justintime]

I have a few pics of some dual purpose cows but I have not got them on my computer and my scanner is not working right now. I will see if I can figure out what is wrong with it.
In the early 70s I went to Ontario to look at some dual purpose cows that were for sale, as I was thinking I would try to find a couple to add to our herd. Bert Pepper was working for the Canadian Shorthorn Association, and he had told me there was a very good herd for sale at that time.
I flew down a couple days after Bert had told me about this herd, and we found out that the herd was sold the day before in it's entirely. This was the first set of dual purpose cows I had ever seen and I was amazed at what I saw.
For the next two days, Bert drove me around and we visited many dual purpose herds. Many of them had lots of great cows for sale at that time. These were dairy herds, and they were removing their lower milking cows and these were exactly what I was interested in. I phoned home and talked to my dad, and I told him most of the cows available could be purchased for market price or close to it. He said to make a list of the ones I really liked and then come home and we would decide how many we should buy. These cows had tremendous thickness and were apple smooth. They had perfect udders, and they had production records of around 8000 lbs of milk. Bert had told me to stay away from cows with more than 8500 lbs milk as they would probably not handle our conditions out here. When I came home I had 42 cows on my list.  I ended up buying 29 bred females, most of which cost me around $300 each. Market prices at the time were extremely low and these cows would have been shipped to market soon. I did pay $1000 for an older cow who was considered one of the best dual purpose cows in Ontario and had won the Royal Winter Fair on 3 occasions. She was 10 years old and I decided it was worth the gamble to try to get a couple heifer calves from her.
About 2/3 of these cows adjusted very well to moving to western Canada and entering a beef herd rather than the dairy herds they had come from. The other 1/3 proved to be too frail or not able to adjust very well. These cows did not stay here very long. I found that there were some of these cows that were very hardy. I doubt if a couple of them could have been killed with an axe. Two of these cows stayed in production until they were 20 years old with no pampering. They were beautiful cows and excellent producers and they worked very well with our herd sires at the time like Ready Go, Four Point Major and Highfield Irish Mist.