Cattle Investor Question

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forcheyhawk

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Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
315
I've been approached by a few friends that know nothing about cattle about the possibilities of doing some partnerships or being involved in my cattle business.  I've been turning them down because I really don't want the hassle and have viewed this as a hobby myself, but I'm starting to think I could really move things forward quicker if I took them up on it.  I'm just curious as to what some of your ideas are on this and if you've run into any issues with having friends as investors.  They are all easy guys to get along with and I don't anticipate any issues that way.  We'd definitely get everything in writing and be very clear about the details of every deal.  I'm still a little nervous about the whole deal though.  Any experience with this out there?
 

Silver

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May 16, 2010
Messages
331
Location
Dietrich, ID
If they know nothing just be sure that your the one making the decisions not them or things could go downhill in a hurry. It only takes a few months to screw up a cattle operation, but it takes decades to build a good one.
 

mooch

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Apr 10, 2008
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393
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IOWA
Do you want friends or partners ? Because in the end they will not be both.
 

LostFarmer

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Jun 20, 2010
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Eastern Idaho
When you make a partnership be sure you have the details of how to desolve it up front.  A buy sell arrangement.  Most important part of the deal.  LF
 

WMW11

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Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
44
I agree with the one post,  you will not be friends with them within  a year.    I always joke with guys when they ask me about getting in the cattle business.  I tell them I had a full proof plan on how to be a millionare within a year.  When they ask me how I tell them to start with two million.   

Everyone I know that has tried the partner deal usually starts out your way.  One has knowledge and the other has some money to invest.  The invester can never understand why it takes so long to get a return.  He then wants to get his half back and you have to sell your best animals to pay him off. 
 

SFASUshowman

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Jul 31, 2010
Messages
200
Speaking as someone who is just getting my brother out of 2 very bad partnerships he got into with friends I will agree that you will not be friends in the end UNLESS you follow some steps.
1)Make sure they understand that this is a partnership not a friendship.
2)Regardless of how much you trust them get EVERYTHING in writing for proof.
3)If you are going to have control of the animals, i.e. you are going to be the one purchasing feed, paying the vet, etc. I would recomend first seeing if your supplier, vet, etc will bill your partner for their part of the bill, if not make sure you keep accurate records and send copies of all receipts when you bill them for their part.  Our situation is different as we have animals that belong solely to me, partner animals and animals that belong solely to my partner on the same pasture.  What I do is buy all the feed, hay, and minerals myself.  I then figure out roughly what it costs to feed each animal daily.  So for example if I figured it at $5 a day I would bill my partners $5 per day per animal they owned and $2.50 a day per animal they owned half of.  I ussually stick with a good average number year round and I explain this to the partner and to people I may be keeping animals for...If I am charging $5.00 a day, it may only actually cost $4 a day some times in the year, but it may cost as much as $6 or more a day other times of the year, such as winter when I am feeding more, so it all averages out in the end.  My vet bills me for my animals, a seperate account for the partnership animals, and my partner for their animals. I then bill the partner for half of the joint bill. For maintenance  I bill the partner for half, unless there is proof that one of my partners animals broke something under extreme circumstances...at which time I bill them for all maintenance.  I always include copies of receipts when billing for vet, maintenance and misc expenses.
4) You have to have a plan to disolve the partnership, will you sell all partnered animals and split the profit, will one of you buy the other out, or will it be a compination.

We did both ways...if we just put a price on animals that we were asking and I wanted the animal then I paid my partner half that price....one partner wanted money NOW so we took everything to the Auction Barn and split the cost...I simply went and bought back the ones I wanted.

It can be tricky ...but can work if done right...you just have to iron it all out BEFORE starting...its kinda like gentics...kinda hard to change once conceived.


Sorry so long but this is a fresh issue for me!
 

forcheyhawk

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Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
315
SFASUshowman said:
Speaking as someone who is just getting my brother out of 2 very bad partnerships he got into with friends I will agree that you will not be friends in the end UNLESS you follow some steps.
1)Make sure they understand that this is a partnership not a friendship.
2)Regardless of how much you trust them get EVERYTHING in writing for proof.
3)If you are going to have control of the animals, i.e. you are going to be the one purchasing feed, paying the vet, etc. I would recomend first seeing if your supplier, vet, etc will bill your partner for their part of the bill, if not make sure you keep accurate records and send copies of all receipts when you bill them for their part.  Our situation is different as we have animals that belong solely to me, partner animals and animals that belong solely to my partner on the same pasture.  What I do is buy all the feed, hay, and minerals myself.  I then figure out roughly what it costs to feed each animal daily.  So for example if I figured it at $5 a day I would bill my partners $5 per day per animal they owned and $2.50 a day per animal they owned half of.  I ussually stick with a good average number year round and I explain this to the partner and to people I may be keeping animals for...If I am charging $5.00 a day, it may only actually cost $4 a day some times in the year, but it may cost as much as $6 or more a day other times of the year, such as winter when I am feeding more, so it all averages out in the end.  My vet bills me for my animals, a seperate account for the partnership animals, and my partner for their animals. I then bill the partner for half of the joint bill. For maintenance  I bill the partner for half, unless there is proof that one of my partners animals broke something under extreme circumstances...at which time I bill them for all maintenance.  I always include copies of receipts when billing for vet, maintenance and misc expenses.
4) You have to have a plan to disolve the partnership, will you sell all partnered animals and split the profit, will one of you buy the other out, or will it be a compination.

We did both ways...if we just put a price on animals that we were asking and I wanted the animal then I paid my partner half that price....one partner wanted money NOW so we took everything to the Auction Barn and split the cost...I simply went and bought back the ones I wanted.

It can be tricky ...but can work if done right...you just have to iron it all out BEFORE starting...its kinda like gentics...kinda hard to change once conceived.


Sorry so long but this is a fresh issue for me!

I really appreciate the details.  Thats what I was looking for.  Thanks!!!
 

RAShower

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Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
74
Location
OK
Take your friends to Vegas.

When you get back they will still have lost their money but at least you will still be friends. ;)
 

Telos

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Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,267
Location
Dallas, Texas
It is when these investors are mislead into believing that there are potential profits... This is never a good thing in a cattle business relationship. You might want to advise them that it is like winning the lottery.

I think there is a small market of urban and rural investors.  Primarily these are entertainment/pleasure types who know that there will never be much of a return, if any. I'm one who sometimes spends a small amount to partner in something that I feel has some value, but never with the intention of making a bunch of money. It's just a fun thing. I have made great friends and kept tied to an industry that I love and respect.

I think the show cattle segment could use a boost of investor dollars. Why not? Investors can help subsidize something that has become very expensive for most and in return they get their entertainment. If lucky, both parties might even profit.

 

kobo_ranch

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Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
484
Location
TEXAS
Golly guys... hope its not as bad as a few of you say it is... if so all these cattle people must all be independently wealthy and just like playing with cow manure!  (lol) Shoot its gotta make something don't know anything much these days that can make you rich overnight... unless you win the lotto and that ain't happenin'! <beer>
 

blackcows

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Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
270
SFASUshowman said:
I do is buy all the feed, hay, and minerals myself.  I then figure out roughly what it costs to feed each animal daily.  So for example if I figured it at $5 a day I would bill my partners $5 per day per animal they owned and $2.50 a day per animal they owned half of.  I ussually stick with a good average number year round and I explain this to the partner and to people I may be keeping animals for...If I am charging $5.00 a day, it may only actually cost $4 a day some times in the year, but it may cost as much as $6 or more a day other times of the year, such as winter when I am feeding more, so it all averages out in the end.  once conceived.

If I am reading this correctly your feed costs are $1825 per head per year?  :eek:
 

SFASUshowman

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Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
200
blackcows said:
SFASUshowman said:
I do is buy all the feed, hay, and minerals myself.  I then figure out roughly what it costs to feed each animal daily.  So for example if I figured it at $5 a day I would bill my partners $5 per day per animal they owned and $2.50 a day per animal they owned half of.  I ussually stick with a good average number year round and I explain this to the partner and to people I may be keeping animals for...If I am charging $5.00 a day, it may only actually cost $4 a day some times in the year, but it may cost as much as $6 or more a day other times of the year, such as winter when I am feeding more, so it all averages out in the end.  once conceived.

If I am reading this correctly your feed costs are $1825 per head per year?  :eek:



I was not sitting and looking at records when doing this....I was just giving a simple round number for example....If your truly interested in my exact costs and what I am billing then I will get that informatioon...but I didnt think it was vital to the topic...just throwing some numbers in for the illustration
 

blackcows

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Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
270
No need to look up your costs for me but if you are running cattle for investors and you feeds cost are $5 a day I don't know how anyone can make any money, it should be a lot closer to a $1 if you are using round numbers.
 
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