Charolais Cows

[KSmithShowCattle]

I have two Charolais cows I want to AI and I need a Reg Charolais moderate framed bull that could possibly be clubby as well I am just looking for suggestions.
Thanks

 

[BogartBlondes]

Easy choice for me would be TR Mr Firewater or DR Revelation. Both are Charolais and produce very showy offspring.
Both are also chosen for calving ease and moderate frame.

 

[Mark H]

The standard answer is to use Firewater or Gerrard Montezuma both easily available from Genex.  Another bull to consider is CML Diablo 2X.  Neither of the bull sls are calving heifer bulls.  DR Revelation is much easier calving any of the other two but his EPDs are not as strong plus he can be inconsistent.
Other bull also may work.  Much more information on these cows and where you want to take them (need bulls? Heifers?) has to be given before a bull recommendation  can be given.

 

[Mark H]

That should read DR revalation is much easier calving than the other three bulls.

 

[KSmithShowCattle]

They are both cows and calving ease wont be a huge deal as they are bigger framed also I am trying to get show cattle bulls, heifer, or steers.
Thanks
1. Is out of a bull named Classic Cigar who is a LHD Cigar son
2. Is out of a bull named Eatons Royal Dynasty 6164

 

[Mark H]

What needs improving?

 

[Freddy]

Sounds like you have plenty of size and height to show these day's ....LT LEDGER  0332  is very hot in the breed at present ,show people are picking cattle that are balanced
and travel better than in the past with extra capacity and easier fleshing ...Seen a good ALLSTATE heifer this summer also ....Firewater might work on 2 cow but would stay away from CIGAR cow with him because he has some CIGAR also ...

 

[KSmithShowCattle]

They are pretty good cows in their own right but I would like to widen them up through their front, add some bone, hair, and muscle.

 

[Mark H]

Agree with Freddy's comments.
Montezuma like the other Freedom line cattle hair up very well and should help you out in the bone and muscle areas as well.  Allstate is a good choice as well with his bred in performance and phenotype.  Allstate like freedom comes from a line of powerful, useful cows.
Firewater would alo be a good choice on the cow not related to cigar
You have some good choices where you don't have to pay alot for the semen.  It would be interesting to see how CML Encore 4Y or Diablo would work but I don't think the syndicates that own either bull is seeling semen outside of semen packages.
Thomas ranch owns or has used each of the bulls execpt Allstate so for more imformation contact them.

 

[BogartBlondes]

I have used Firewater, Montezuma, Revelation and All State.

By far, the best calves are the Firewater calves. They put some bone in, lots of muscle, easy fleshing and are easy on the move. In my opinion, the Firewater calves can be a little higher strung than the others.

My Montezuma calves have been a little bigger in frame score than I mighty like, but he adds some width to the top and they move out on nice feet and legs. **don't use on heifers

Revelation has thrown some really nice heifer calves for me, they milk well and are very easy fleshing. They almost get fat on air! They are more moderate framed.

All State has been the most inconsistent sire that I have EVER used. He can throw a good one, but then breed him to the same cow the next year and the calf will be totally different. I haven't seen many All State calves that turn my crank, a number of mine have had trouble moving on their back wheels.

For larger framed Charolais cows to get some more thickness, bone and muscle I would go with Montezuma or Firewater. I have attached a photo of a Montezuma daughter in our area that has done very well. She was National Junior Beef Heifer Champion and Reserve Charolais Female at the Royal Winter Fair in Toronto.

 

[Mark H]

Bogart,

What breeding are your cows?  I am wondering if the breeding on the cow makes a difference on how good allstate works.  Ever try any bulls out of Sparrows Sanchez?

 

[BogartBlondes]

Mark H,

My cows go back to Wyoming Wind, Cigar and I tried All State on a Montezuma daughter. His calving ease is good, nice 80lbs. calves. But, it seems the finished product is always different. I have one really good one going back to the Wind, but the others are good, bad, okay and anything in between. I purchased 15 straws and I have used 12 of them, I don't think I'd buy more. I tend to like his bull calves better than females. I haven't retained any.The calf out of the Montezuma heifer was a good bull calf, he was sold as a breeding bull. One good heifer calf was sold as a breeding female. The rest were auction mart bound.
I haven't tried anything with Sparrows Sanchez. I have seen many good calves out of Sparrows Alcatraz though.

 

[Mark H]

Bogart,

If you like easy fleshing smaller framed Charolais with good muscle it is hard to ignore full french Charolais.  This is why percentage french cattle are so popular in Canada. The problem is either you are using a bull with 40 year old breeding or a french bull that is not tested in our conditions.  Fortunately some people are sorting through what is available in France and selling cattle with their influence that have worked.  These cattle have gained some market acceptance with some old herdsires bringing around $ 15,000 last spring at bull sales.  Here is a link to a breeder using new french genetics: http://www.rollinacrescharolais.com/
If calving ease is the thing  consider Pleasant Dawn Marshall: http://www.pleasantdawn.com/.  He has sired a reserve grand champion bull at Agribition.  He also has no cigar or Mr Perfect in him.

 

[BogartBlondes]

Mark H,

I have a couple older cows that I purchased as Full French (but unregistered). I used Jezabel before and got some big but flashy calves. I intend to use him more in the future. These older cows and Jezabel influenced cattle that I have are best crossed with the Firewater and Revelation.
I have seen offspring of Pleasant Dawn Marshall and have liked what I have seen. I have a couple doses in the tank that i intend to use this spring.
I still find that the French genetics don't add showing ability as easily as say the Firewater and Montezuma.
I have also found some of my Jezabel calves to be clunky as they walk. I bred a Jezabel X Cigar cow to Revelation and have gotten a very very nice looking bull out of that mating.

 

[Charguy]

Hi Bogart - I assume you are from Canada. How are you using Firewater? The bull is syndicated in Canada and semen is not available on the open market yet you say you used him. I cannot get any semen personally unless I buy a calf, female bred or use one of his sons who are available. Just curious.

 

[Freddy]

We had quite a few French bulls back in the 70's and there were a few problems ...Some big birth weights ,loose pasterns ,not very smooth made ,but some of the bulls helped the breed some .....They just are not handled like our  cattle ,they like them big and don't have to travel much ...

 

[BogartBlondes]

Charguy,

I purchased a group of heifers that were all out of Firewater as well as I split a flush with a breeder with Canadian rights to him. I have a quite a few daughters out of him now.
I have used his son Turton by AI and his calves are very similar.

 

[Charguy]

Thanks Bogart - just checking to make sure I didnt miss something (semen opening up in Canada). I have a deal as well with a rights holder so Im expecting some ET FW calves this spring as well (I put the eggs in my commercials and we split the calves). I bought a couple FW heifers last year for 4-H calves for the kids. They are very attractive and should make great cows. Bred them both to Ledger. Really impressed with the calves from Ledger so far.

 

[Gargan]

Have any of you used this guy? He looks really moderate in this pic but that can be deceiving sometimes. His bw # looks good too http://www.bovine-elite.com/charepd2.asp?idProduct=4412&id2nd=0

 

[Mark H]

Garman,

Leddy Hoo Doo is owned by a clubby guy in Texas and is promoted under the name Hoo Made Hoo.  Here is the link to the owner: http://leddycattle.com/bulls.html.
By nthe way Dr Revalation is out of Hoo Doo Slasher. Dr revalatation is a calving ease bull so if you are looking for a Hoo Doo influence bull with calving ease he is the one.