Coronet Max Leader

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librarian

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Hi, I'm also looking for a photo of Max Leader. My Cat 20ish bull is looking very much like  Leader 61 in body type, so I'm looking for a picture of the next generation back.
 

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beebe

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I like the head on that calf.  He looks like a bull.
 

oakview

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I always liked the tail and lower quarter retouching they did on those old photos.  Most bulls of that era didn't need to be bedded in straw to look short legged.  Would he be a 3 frame score?  It is interesting in my 60+ years I've seen dinks and giraffes and everything in between.  Proud to say I've had some of everything, too.  What a ride.
 

beebe

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Well he is the sire of Leader 21 who weighed 2250.  If a frame 3 can sire a 2250 pound bull I want him.  He sired many ton plus bulls.
 

oakview

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According to Bob Gordon, the gentleman who owned Leader 21, he was a total freak of his genetics.  He did not closely resemble his sire or grandsire.  His half brothers were much smaller than he was.  Lawton Priam came over on the boat, but could have stood up in a pick up topper.  We used Leader 21 and Leader 9 50 years ago and they were relatively large framed then.  I have used a Leader 9 son and grandsons over the past 5 or 6 years and they are relatively small framed now.  I'm not saying it's good or bad.  It doesn't matter to me what anybody uses today.  Max Leader and his cohorts were small framed.  I saw many cattle of that era.  They were generally belt buckle cattle and there was a valid reason for it.  There were a few outliers, Leader 21 was one of them.  That's why he didn't come close to topping the sale where Bob Gordon bought him.     
 

beebe

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I too used leader 21 and leader 9 fifty years ago.  His grand sire was Priam Royal leader.  They may be small framed cattle,  I like small framed cattle especially the ones that weigh a lot.  In my world big is pounds not inches.  I sell beef by the pound, most of my customers never see the animal the ones that do want to see a 700 to 750 pound carcass.  Coronet max leader could sire calves that could do that.  How much should a bull weigh if I want a 1250 pound cow?
 

oakview

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With the genetics we started with 60 years ago, by adding Leader 21 and 9 to the mix it was still a stretch to get mature cow weights to 1,250.  You have to remember common cows weighed 1,000 or less at the time.  My first year in 4-H, in the mid 60.s, the minimum weight for a market steer at the county fair was 850 pounds.  The heaviest steer at the fair weighed 1,035.  He was the only steer over 1,000 pounds.  Minimum weight stayed at 850 pounds for many years after that.  Towards the late 60's and early 70's we started seeing some performance testing advertised.  1,000 pound yearling weights were starting to become kind of a benchmark for top performance.  I still remember an advertisement for a Leader 21 son, I believe it was Kinnaber Leader 3rd, in which the owner stated he was not so much interested in the first 1,000 pounds of an animal, but the second.  Later in the 70's, we bought a bull named Nugget's Max that had sired a bull that gained over 4.0 pounds per day at the IBIA (Iowa Beef Improvement Association) test.  I would use him today if I could.  He was moderately framed, deep bodied, well muscled, and sired some absolutely great females.  He was one of those rare animals that had growth and performance in a relatively small package by today's standards. 
 

beebe

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My dad bought a bull from Bert Hanson that left many 1200 pound daughters.  One of those Shadybrook Select 62nd daughters produced test station top gainers back when I thought test stations were relevant.  When we sold that cow she weighed 1250.  That cow is why I want frame score 4 1250 pound cows.
 

oakview

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I don't know how long ago your father bought his Shadybrook bull, but if it was in the 60's or 70's they were not the typical Shorthorn of the day.  The Studers bought two heifers from Bert back then and won several shows because they were very large framed for that time.  I talked to an old time breeder just Sunday afternoon at the Minnesota State Sale and we spent quite a bit of time talking about Bert Hanson's cattle.  I would think there would be plenty of bulls around today that would sire 1,250 pound cows. 
 

beebe

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The bull was born in 1962 and yes he was a little taller than most.  Doc Nold did good things with Shadybrook Goliath.  There are bulls that can sire 1250 pound cows.  In addition to that I need cattle that are tough enough to graze most of the winter and produce very tender, highly marbled beef.  How did the Minnesota Sale go ?
 

oakview

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I thought the Minnesota sale went very well.  I didn't get the averages, but consistent prices, although the top heifer at $5,000 is one of the highest sellers I can remember there.  Last year the temperature never approached zero the day of the sale.  It was 52 when we left for home Sunday afternoon.  Very large crowd in attendance.  There seems to be a lot of juniors buying show heifers and I believe their state fair junior shows are fairly large.  The cattle were pretty good and in more "practical" condition than at some sales you see.  They do a great job of marking potential genetic defects in their catalog. 
 

librarian

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Thanks for the information, guys. Cant say Max Leader is what I was hoping to see. Guess the dam side of Leader 61bears looking into. Felix is coming along very all. Beebe would like him- short and heavy. I saw something interesting the other day when I was looking at old pictures. Weston Resource is built quite like one of the old Haumot bulls. What kind of cows did Doc Nold have?
 

librarian

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Weston Resource and Rosa's Command 91. To me, they are similar.
 

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librarian

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If a short head was what a person was chasing...Felix sure has it. What I like is his wide back.
 

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oakview

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If you look back into the Weston pedigrees, you will find about the same Scotch type breeding just about all of us were using at that time.  Leader 21 came in and was followed by some other larger type beef bulls.  Later on there was quite a bit of dual influence.  These were generally the deep bodied, easier keeping kind of duals. 
 

beebe

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librarian said:
Thanks for the information, guys. Cant say Max Leader is what I was hoping to see. Guess the dam side of Leader 61bears looking into. Felix is coming along very all. Beebe would like him- short and heavy. I saw something interesting the other day when I was looking at old pictures. Weston Resource is built quite like one of the old Haumot bulls. What kind of cows did Doc Nold have?
He had good cows, including some Haumont cows.  Weston Dynamo was a blend of Haumont and Albaugh genetics.  Weston Surprise was sired by Albaugh genetics.  I had a Dynamo son out of a Haumont cow that was quite thick.
 
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