???CowZ, Calving in Nasty Weather & Removing the calf from Momma.....

[RSC]

Cow Z & Others;

I noticed in another thread that you removed a calf for 2 days because of weather.  I had a bull calf born out of my new donor a few weeks back and the temp was in the teens and windchill well below zero.  I was lucky as I did not freeze any ears.

When you remove a calf and the weather stays that cold, How long do you need to keep the calf in the warm climate?  What are you doing with the calf,  Do you milk out the cow 1-2 times a day and drench the calf?  Are you drenching the calf with anything other than Mommas milk?

My other concerin in is getting the cow to take the calf back afterwards?  Any suggestions?  Do you have more trouble if the Dam is a first calver?

Thanks,
RSC

 

[red]

RSC, there was a really good article in the Maine-Anjou voice about calves in the cold weather. I'll look to see what issue it was in.
When ever we had a bottle calf we fed it a high quality milk replacer. Make sure the calf got it's colostrum.
Red

 

[red]

RSC, there was a really good article in the Maine-Anjou voice about calves in the cold weather. I'll look to see what issue it was in.
When ever we had a bottle calf we fed it a high quality milk replacer. Make sure the calf got it's colostrum.
Red

Found it, it's in the January/February 2006 issue. page 25
Red

 

[RSC]

RSC, there was a really good article in the Maine-Anjou voice about calves in the cold weather. I'll look to see what issue it was in.
When ever we had a bottle calf we fed it a high quality milk replacer. Make sure the calf got it's colostrum.
Red

Found it, it's in the January/February 2006 issue. page 25
Red

Thanks,
I'll have to check it out!

RSC

 

[cowz]

Cow Z & Others;

I noticed in another thread that you removed a calf for 2 days because of weather.  I had a bull calf born out of my new donor a few weeks back and the temp was in the teens and windchill well below zero.  I was lucky as I did not freeze any ears.

When you remove a calf and the weather stays that cold, How long do you need to keep the calf in the warm climate?  What are you doing with the calf,  Do you milk out the cow 1-2 times a day and drench the calf?  Are you drenching the calf with anything other than Mommas milk?

My other concerin in is getting the cow to take the calf back afterwards?  Any suggestions?  Do you have more trouble if the Dam is a first calver?

Thanks,
RSC

RSC,  The calf I posted about a couple of weeks ago worked out like a dream, but it is not always the case with removing the calf.  Here is a brief "BLOG" of what actually happened:  This was a first calf maintainer heifer we raised and AI'd to a maine bull.  Thru nobody's fault this calf was overdue.  Calves that "cook" a little longer tend to be a little bigger.  In my opinion, the reason labor didnt proceed in nature's true time is because this calf presented upside down.  I was able to turn the calf after about an hour but I could not get all the parts thru the pelvis.  As much as I hated to do it, I called the vet.  Now, in my neck of the woods, it is harder than heck to find vets to do c sections on cows.  I do have one good sport and I was lucky to find him home, plow out the road to the barn and get him there.  C section went fine, but the heifer was one PO'd little lady.  Big bull calf, dumb, momma wouldn't lick off.  We milked out the colostrum, tubed the calf, rubbed him off with a towel, made him a nice little straw nest in the corner with a heat lamp over it.  On AI calves in cold weather, I use the towel that we rubbed him down with, wrap around his ears (flat against body) and secure with duct tape.  Any how when I came back to check on him, the temp in the barn (no heaters here) had dipped to -10 and his loving mother had peed on him and he was one cold wet miserable little baby.  At that point in time, I wasnt sure he would make it.   I hauled him up to the house, put him in my kitchen/ front porch (linoleum ) and put him on an old rug, toweled him off.  When you do this you have to warm them up slowly.  After about an hour, his feet were still very cold, so I used a hair dryer and towel to rub and blow hot air on him and get his circulation going.  Any how he hung with us in the house for the next two full days until he was able to stand and suck from a bottle.  Because of the way he was positioned in the womb, his legs were a little funky and bowed.  We kept the house at 62 while he was in there so he would not get too hot.  Lucky for us the wind stopped blowing the day we reunited him with mom, it was about 30 in the barn. 

To answer the feeding question, We milked the heifer out twice a day in a chute and I fed the calf 4X aday with her milk.  It is really important that these calves get every little bit of colostrum you can manage within the first 12 hours of life. (You need to keep them milked out to stimulate milk production so the calf has adequate milk later.)  We kept this calf in a calving pen with his mom for a week.  Lucky for us he did not get a respitory thing and got a lot stronger before he saw mom.  Also she turned out to be a good mom and accepted him right away.  This is not often the case.  When heifers do not love their babies right away, we have a head catch in the corner of the calving pen, catch em and help the calves nurse.  After a few days of remedial training, these heifers usually get the idea to be nice to the little codgers! 

Also this calf's legs have straightened out, he runs and jumps and is the little bully of the heifer pen, constantly butting all the other moms.  He must think he is special cause he spent time in the big house.  (clapping)

 

[DL]

RSC - had my first calf last week - Michigan - cold - frozen (good no mud) - barn without walls (great ventilation!)

I do the following - every calf that does not get up immediately and nurse gets 2 liters of powdered colostrum supplement (lifeline, colostrix  - there are others - there is actually a colostrum replacement now but studies have shown that 2 bags of these supplements provides a pretty good dose of immunoglobulins)

Calf gets dried and put into a polar fleece coat - if it is really really cold it gets 2 coats or one coat with thick polar fleece stuffed under it!. Calves don't thermoregulate as well as adults - so hypothermia is a real concern. People laugh (calf better dressed that I am) but I would rather they use the energy from their food to grow and not maintain body temp.

Ears - the only frost bit ears I ever had were in March - I have tried a variety of things but the thing that seems to work the best is this funky thing I got from REI (actually for myself -the sacrifices we make) - it is a nyalon tube about 15 or 18 inches long that can be twisted and tied in a variety of ways when backpacking or doing outside things - they are French and I can't remember the name - slide one over the calves head, with the ears pinned to the head and voila - nice warm ears. I think the trick is keeping them next to the head - I tried the stocking bit but I dont wear them and having friends donate them seemed a little tacky, plus they didn't really work that well and the calf looked like a bank robber! I know people that just duck tape them to the head  - I can't do that  :'(

Then I pack them in a deeply bedded straw pen with either tarps or these funky panels I have to keep out the wind - usually put straw bales along the bottom (calf is usually lying on the ground draft at 8 feet isn't as important as draft at 6 inches). If all is well I lock the mother in with the baby. If not she is outside the pen in a bigger pen. This last baby was 14 days early and a bit unexpected (checked the heifer at midnight - thought nothing going on-well) 6 am there was this cold little bundle - teeth barely out - hair a little crispy - she got up but had not suck - tubed her, polar fleece, wrapped in straw. That night little bit of suck bright alert up and bouncing - tuber her again (locked them in the pen because I didn't want her wandering around and lying on the ice!) - next am she is up and nursing and is now full of the proverbial piss and vinegar (P&V).

I try not to bring them in the house or separate them - did have a one month early calf in the house (sounded like a collie in high heels) and he became a bottle baby - his mother didn't know him, but he was there for a week and did learn to steal from the other mothers.

I think getting them warm right away with 2 liters of warm energy filled colostrum or colustrum supplement is the key - once they get cold to the core it is a much bigger battle....and they become a set up for all sorts of problems!

DL (the mad woman with the best dressed calves!)

 

[red]

Sullivan's sell calf ear muffs! I hate to see DL give up her purple tube tops to a calf.
Red

 

[RSC]

Sullivan's sell calf ear muffs! I hate to see DL give up her purple tube tops to a calf.
Red

Thanks to all, good info!

RSC

 

[red]

If anybody is interested in the article, I have a copy of it on PDF format. It is entitle "Baby, it's cold outside". Was in the Yoice, Jauary/February 2006 issue.
Just e-mail me or if I get an OK from the author, I'll post it here. (cow)
Red
[email protected]

 

[genes]

DL I think in the last few years my dad has figured out that keeping the ears close to the head is the trick, and duct tapes them down.  I think sometimes over the ear muffs.  I'm not really sure as it's not what we did when I lived at home.  I think he still will go to the hairdryer first if they are already really cold.    I'm sure I'll start hearing about it any day now though......

 

[DL]

Hey genes - I know a lot of people duct tape the ears to the head - I just cant do it - maybe it is George's fault when he told us all to prepare for a terrorist attack by getting duct tape  (lol)  actually I think it is the idea of ripping off the hair! DL

 

[red]

For anyone that missed it, the article "Baby it's cold outside" is on the front page of www.steerplanet.com
You can read it in it's entirety.
(pop)
Red

 

[DL]

As the cold weather continues I had a couple of other thoughts to consider when dealing with calves born in this wretched weather!

One of the reasons that warming boxes work is that the calf is inside a box filled with warm air (yeah smart you say - for this you went to school!)  ;D Well the lung has a tremendous surface area and breathing in cold air will cool a a calf while breathing in warm air will help warm it. If you don't have a warming box consider putting polar fleece or some other breathable material around/over the nose, surrounding the little face with straw or a hairdryer by the face (on warm).

In my opinion the 2 biggest things to save calves in this wretched cold windy vile weather are getting them warm and giving them nutrition. The 2 actually interact (ie warm milk ---> warm calf). Dry is nice, but warm is much more important. In fact if the calf is wet - since evaporation is a cooling process (my 8th grade science teacher taught me that) drying a wet calf unless it is a warm environment will likely chill the calf.

DL save the baby protocol - calf gets polar fleece coat - immediately - calf doesn't get dry (may dry off face/ears - but coat goes on. Beauty of polar fleece it maintains warmth when wet or damp. Calf may get 2 coats, my vest, my jacket, or wrapped in blanket - but calf gets polarized! I use the "how warm is the crotch and belly" as an assessment of how warm the calf is - also how warm is the back to the naked hand.

If calf doesn't nurse in 30 minutes - calf gets tubed - 2 liters of colostrum supplement (powder mix in water - ready quickly). I don't milk out the cow, I don't thaw colostrum - time is of the essence - they need to get warm quick. Now if you have a crew you can modifiy these things - but with a labor force of one you have to be efficient and have a plan. It helps if you are strong - but you can do it if you are a 100 lb weakling!! (it just takes you longer to recover!)  (cow) (cow)

Stars out tonight - no wind - cold but beautiful - blizzard over....ahhhh!

 

[cowz]

DL,

I feel for you!  It's exhausting after a few days of fighting the cold and worrying over calves.  We are gearing up for round 2 here.  Hopefully these artic air weather systems will give us a break.  Thanks for the endorsement for the powdered colostrum, as I had always hesitated to use it.  My freezer stash of snitched colostrum is running low after "kitchen baby".

Your post makes sense about the warm air.  I know a couple of guys who do not use a hot box, but shove the dog out of the front seat of the pickup and put the calf on the floor with the heaters running full blast.  They swear by it!  Not much fun for the faithful companions!  Lends itself to a whole new market for car air fresheners! ;D

 

[genes]

DL..just a question.  Once you've tubed, do you still make an eventual big effort to get them drinking Mom's milk soon as well?  Or would you tube again on one that stayed slow, or .... just what's the general after plan for different progress?