Feeding Melatonin

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chambero

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Have any of you folks fed melatonin (either the pills or the liquid [Grow and Shine] form)?  I've used implants right at the end of a show year and they probably do seem to work.  Thinking about trying it on babies all year but don't want to keep implants in that long. 

My primary question is what dosage to use when being fed?  I could extrapolate what it says for humans on a pill bottle, but the Grow and Shine ads seem to imply a lot more is needed.
 

knabe

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why don't you just go to a 16hour light 8 hour dark cycle.  this has been shown repeatedly to raise endogenous melatonin levels and get them to eat more.

i guess exogenous melatonin is cheaper than turning on the lights though.
 

chambero

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Most likely because I've developed an itch to waste money.

In reality, I know folks down here use it.  Combined with the fact I've been getting something of a lesson in humility lately with steers, its implementation of the can't beat em then join em philosophy.
 

ATOZ

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knabe said:
why don't you just go to a 16hour light 8 hour dark cycle.  this has been shown repeatedly to raise endogenous melatonin levels and get them to eat more.

i guess exogenous melatonin is cheaper than turning on the lights though.

I thought that i read that you wanted it dark in the barn? I am putting up doors to keep the light out.... Know i read that i want light  ??? ???
 

CAB

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Chambero, go to the purina Chows feed site. There should be a link there to Kirk Stierwalt's e-mail. He has opinions on the melatonin and Bobby May likes the Grow & Shine. If Kirk will reply, you can't find a better guy for info.
 

Dusty

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I am curious as to the melatonin implants?  Are they just like growth implants??  Where does a person locate them?  Whats the procedure?
 

chambero

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Yep - just like growth implants.  Put them in the ear.  I get them from our hoof trimmer.  Hundred and some odd dollars per calf for a 60 day dose.  Don't know for sure where they come from.  We slide them in a Revalor gun.  You can of have to "hold your mouth just right" to get them in.
 

Dusty

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chambero said:
Yep - just like growth implants.  Put them in the ear.  I get them from our hoof trimmer.  Hundred and some odd dollars per calf for a 60 day dose.  Don't know for sure where they come from.  We slide them in a Revalor gun.  You can of have to "hold your mouth just right" to get them in.
Wow not exactly cheap, it would be nice to find the source, see if there is a cheaper way to get the melatonin in the system.
 

Jill

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CAB said:
Chambero, go to the purina Chows feed site. There should be a link there to Kirk Stierwalt's e-mail. He has opinions on the melatonin and Bobby May likes the Grow & Shine. If Kirk will reply, you can't find a better guy for info.
We are going to a clinic with him next weekend, if you don't get an answer let me know and I'll ask him.
 

CAB

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Jill, have you ever been to 1 of Kirk's clinics? If not, I say take a recorder and ask if he cares if you record the info. The tips and talks are worth the money alone. Kirk has forgotten more than I'll ever know. Chambero, when he comes to your area, don't miss the opportunity.
 

Jill

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No we haven't, we've gone to the 1 day seminars they put on with Purina but this is the 1st time we've gone for the weekend deal.  I never thought of taking a recorder, good idea.  Thanks  The boys are pretty young, but we figured anything they pick up will be a plus, they listen to someone else way better than they listen to either of us.
 

Dusty

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Will melatonin test???  If so how soon before before the show can you quit feeding it so it won't show up?
 

CAB

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Jill, the one that I went to, there were 2 young boys there and I thought that they maybe got the most out of it. They had NO FEAR, they would listen to Kirk then go & each take a side of their calf & be the first ones done. Someday if they stay with it, they will both be good fitters. As far as the tips go, you'll be the one that gets the most out of it. You'll have fun!!!
 

vc

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I was told to give 25 ml a day of the Grow and Shine, he said to use a 30 ml syringe, pull the stopper, but finger over the other end and just pour it in.
He used this method last year with good success on the state fair calves (state fair is in August)
 

BCCC

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My guess is the owner of grow n shine, or Kirk Steirwalt.

How much is grow and shine a bottle??
 

chambero

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A bottle of Grow and Shine apparently contains 946 ml (3 mg melatonin per ml).  Roughly $60 per bottle unless you buy a bunch.  At 25 cc per head per day, a $60 bottle would last one calf 37 days ($1.62 per day).  That's cheaper than the implants for that period of time, but I guess I'll have to find out on effectiveness.

I sent an e-mail to Kirk Stierwalt last night.  I think a very good question to ask him in his seminars is about supplements in general and his take on them and what they use:  hair growth, "soundness" additives like glucosamine, etc.  I'm guessing he'll refer us to Shag, but who knows.
 

DLD

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chambero said:
A bottle of Grow and Shine apparently contains 946 ml (3 mg melatonin per ml).  Roughly $60 per bottle unless you buy a bunch.  At 25 cc per head per day, a $60 bottle would last one calf 37 days ($1.62 per day).  That's cheaper than the implants for that period of time, but I guess I'll have to find out on effectiveness.

I sent an e-mail to Kirk Stierwalt last night.  I think a very good question to ask him in his seminars is about supplements in general and his take on them and what they use:  hair growth, "soundness" additives like glucosamine, etc.  I'm guessing he'll refer us to Shag, but who knows.

I'm guessing he'll refer you to Shag, too, since his name's on it... shoot, his picture, even. I've not been a big fan of all the additives (seems like lots of snake oils out there), but we did feed Shag to our OKC steer this time, and I guess I'll say I'm a believer. I picked up a bucket at the Fort Worth steer show, and fed it through 'til yesterday, and I really think it helped alot with hair and bloom, at least. Without a cooler, we kept pretty good hair, and it grew a little all the way through. He never shed at all (you could rinse him and comb him all over and there wouldn't be a noticeable amount of hair left in the comb, and it was thick enough you had to use a skip tooth or fluffer) 'til the first of March, and very little after that (which was also after he was clipped for our county show), which is an accomplishment in itself to me. I wish we'd started it earlier - a friend of ours started it around Thanksgiving, and ended up with lots of really good hair, also without a cooler. As far as it's other claims (appetite, soundness, etc...) I don't know how much good it does, 'cause we didn't have any problems with that before we started, but I'll say we will be using it in the future.

Btw, Kirk might not be home from OKC 'til tomorrow night after the premium sale (obviously a problem we don't have - lol).
 

chambero

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I don't really mess with additives much either other than some old ones just out of habit ("Gold Dust" mineral, Show Bloom).  I think they are almost always snake oil.

But.....You have to re-examine what you are doing when you keep having "learning experiences" at the big shows from people that you think you had better calves than starting out and they keep on beating you.  Something has changed on us a little in the last 3-4 years and I haven't figured out just what yet.

Since there is a little bit of science behind Melatonin and I don't use a cooler, we are thinking about it for use all year.

Thanks for the note on Shag.  I know you've got to have a calf with hair to begin with, but it takes every little bit now.
 
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