Both bulls are big time show ring sires. Which one you use would depend on what you need improve to get the calf you want? What is the end use? steers? heifers? Firewater is definitely a harder calving bull, but puts power into his offspring. I like his females better than his males despite his negative milk EPD. Outsider a negative birth weight EPD and better growth numbers but doesn't have the power Firewater can put into them. Outsider's making a name for himself being used as an outcross for cattle that have Firewater in them. A bull similar to Outsider is CML Diablo. Tim Bullock at Prairie Cove Charolais https://prairiecovecharolais.com/ is using Outcast on Firewater females. Contact Tim for more details. I would also look at PCC ROME 437B given what you have told me so far.