First breeding AI percentage

[frostback]

This post is in conjunction with the question about timed AI breeding. I was wondering what everyones percentage with first try AIing is? Please tell if they are synced or natural heat as that matters a lot.
It is late so I will figure out mine in the morning as the cow is done calving and I am going to bed.

 

[CAB]

For me, I use co sync on my cows & natural detection for my 1st calver's. I will normally get 70 to 80% here whichever way I do them. I bred some heifers for a neighbor last spring, co sync and he says we'll get 7 out of 9 hd @ his place. I co-sync time breed for my sister and we'll get 60 to 65 % @ her place, so it looks like to me that about 10% better results by some sort of heat detection verses timed insemination. My #'s here are 35-50 hd total, my sister's herd is short 20 head, so small #s, but I think the % will stand in larger #s also.

 

[shortyisqueen]

Both our cows and heifers are done by natural heat detection only. It is lots of time spent with the cows for that month, but we generally get over 90% conception (I think we got 95% last year). If the cow needs to be bred at 2am though, we do get up and breed her, so careful timing has a lot to do with it, as well as knowing the cow. We have a few that only catch if we breed them slightly early and a few that work better if they are bred late. We normally AI about 50 - 60 head a year.

 

[GLZ]

If the cow needs to be bred at 2am though, we do get up and breed her, so careful timing has a lot to do with it

Do you breed 12 hours after you see standing heat, or what is your rule that you follow that has you gettting up at 2 am and breeding?

 

[shortyisqueen]

We normally try to shoot for 15 hours after the onset of standing heat - we have a few cows that must be A.I'ed at 12 hours to catch them - but this depends also on when the cow went out of standing heat. If she has an extra-long standing heat, then 12 hours will be too early to breed her. If she's been out of heat for 4-6 hours, then this is a good time to breed. The chart below explains what I mean (probably better than I can).

If the cow needs to be bred at 2am though, we do get up and breed her, so careful timing has a lot to do with it

Do you breed 12 hours after you see standing heat, or what is your rule that you follow that has you gettting up at 2 am and breeding?

 

[Jill]

I have one that is a good example, I have a heifer that was standing last night when they came out of the cooler and she is still standing this morning, if you bred her at the 12 hours from 1st heat you would be wasting a straw of semen because she wasn't quite ready.

 

[red]

we generally have about a 80%  rate the first time & 100% on the 2nd breeding. Ours are not synched.

Red

 

[Cowboy]

Shorty is Queen -- GOOD post with the chart -- that really proves my point -- and why I breed ONLY after they have been out of standing heat for at least 4 hours or more. The chart willclearly show a cow stand for - NOT 12 hours, but almost 16-18 hours.

Wen I have refferenced the breeding of these donor cows, I use the same simple time schedule, itmakes VERY litle difference whether they are letting one egg go or a dozen -- you simply MUSY give them time to be ready. Semen takes from 3-6 hours after deposit to assimilate the cryoprotectant off and be fertile. Ovulation will take place from 26-30 hours after first standing heat. Do the math -- it is time tested and works -- and again -- convenience is the root of all things BAD when it comes to breeding, make it convenient for the COW, not the technician and you will be well on your way to perfection!

Ahhhhh -- finally -- good information with good results -- and as well -- CAB old buddy, you are doing real well getting that result with a simple timed A-I program, that is about as good as it gets my friend!

Terry

PS -- case in point to further bolster the above -- We flushed a cow today who just came here after being at a large center for a year., She produced lots of eggs there -- but very FEW fertilized ones. Asking how she was managed, they said she was being bred 3 times, with 2 units each starting at -0- , 6, and 12 and given Gnrh at -0-. I laughed outloud.

They asked me how much semen I needed, I said 2 units -- they as well laughed at me! I said OK

Her flush today was 14 eggs, -0- unfertile -- 14 #1 grade stage 4 embryos. In the past year they had frozen exactly 5 eggs from 5 flushes. Do you see my point?? I bred her at 1-30 AM one time with two units and walked away -- no shots at all -- she is happy and chewing her cud as I speak!

Not trying to brag here -- just proving my point -- WAIT till she tells you she is ready -- it works every time!

Terry

 

[Show Heifer]

Last year I waited longer than I have in the past and had terrible luck.....about 50% on Cidrs.
In years past I used cidrs and used the 12 hours after I saw them standing and usually got 75%.
The two years I naturally heat detected and used the 12 hour rule I ran about 85-90%.

So this year, I am going all natural, and using the 12 hour rule. If I see them standing in the morning, I will breed in the evening and vice versa. Hope it works....I'm using some high dollar semen this year!!!

I also might try breeding twice....and splitting the difference. Gotta do something to get the percentage that I find it acceptable (85%).

 

[shorthorns r us]

Gotta do something to get the percentage that I find it acceptable (85%).

85%!

wanna come breed for me this fall?

 

[Bawndoh]

In College we elaborated a lot about the difference between conception and pregnancy rates.  Could someone elaborate on this?  What is your opinion.  I figured the instructor was full of BS because he said that with a full Select-Sync and CIDR program he figured "pregnancy" rate would only be 40-50%, and the second breeding would be another 40-50%.  This sounded rediculous to me, as you are spending so much $$$ on CIDR's and drugs and you really only get maybe 70% of your herd bred in two cycles.
Is this BS or what??

 

[CAB]

A close friend of mine & an ABS rep breeds between 5 and 6000 hd /year, timed AI and says that you can expect 50 to 65% conception rates on one time through the cattle. I couldn't live with the costs of those #s here, but he breeds alot of cows every year. There's really no short cuts. It takes alot of effort no matter how you slice it up.

 

[kanshow]

So what does everyone do on heat detection?    We check morning, noon/afternoon & evening. .  The mornings are bred in the evenings & evenings are bred in the morning.  The noon/afternoon check for us is a hit & miss.  Our heifer pen is right by the hub of activity on the farm so if someone sees a heifer in heat, it is noted.  The problem arises for us on the ones that we catch mid to late afternoon...  but from what most are saying - they could be bred first thing the following morning. 

 

[Jill]

We have run 87% conception and pregnancy rate over a 5 year period on our embryo implants all syn'd with cidrs, if we only had 40-50% we would be out of business!  On our AI and natural service we have 100%, what we don't get the 1st time the bull doesn't miss the 2nd.

CAB-If they are only getting 50-65% on timed AI that probably isn't a bad figure, if you aren't watching heats, it is nothing more than luck of the draw.

Kanshow-we do the same, the odd times we will sometimes breed twice just to make sure we got her.

 

[CAB]

What Terry & Shortqueen are trying to say, is that you have to watch and read each cow independently,and what the really good heat detectors do is get to where they watch the cow go into a, calm state if you will or a warn out state of time after being so active, and there again each cow is so different, when I'm detecting after a cydr pull deal, there are cows that are not showing any visible signs until I pull out a bunch of cows, then all of a sudden I notice a couple of more cows standing. They have been on the lower end of the pecking order and will not risk being beat up until we pull the old boss cow. We'll have cows/heifers that will be balling for 12 -24 hours pre standing heat. When I go to breed for someone, I have to read that operation and try to figure out what kind of heat detectors that I'm going to be working with, and @ that time decide what is going to be the best way to approach the situation for the best conception rates. I personally like visible heat detection best. The ABS rep has to do the same thing and most chances are that he does not have the time to heat ck so they time breed if the customer can live with his #s. It's his job to sell.

 

[red]

very good Brent! We really watch our cows. I've always said I can tell a day before she's coming in heat. Of course it helps when I only have 10 cows to watch!

Red

 

[kanshow]

Has anyone ever noticed any difference in heats on cows when there is a bull nearby?    We keep our bulls on another farm completely away from the cows.    We've noticed that if we bring one or two bulls back right before we are ready to start watching and put them in a neigboring pen, then all the cows really start cycling. 

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

I use a gomer bull for two reasons. 1- the gomer never misses one. 2- I believe the heats are stronger after he has rode them out of standing heat. Really uped my conception rate. 3 years ago I got 47 out of 49 including virgin heifers, but I don't always do that good. Probably average 75 to 80%. RW