CAB
Well-known member
Thanks Eberth. Did you get your fair share of wet snow?
Ft Worth.
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Eberth
Well-known member
We didn't get any snow at all, just lots of rain.
twistedhshowstock
Well-known member
For the record, I wasnt aiming my comments about people constantly whining about politics and classing out at anyone on here or anyone in particular. I was simply making a statement about the fact that as soon as any show is over you will immediately start hearing the comments about politics winning it. Either politics with the judge using a calf of his buddies, or politics of classifiers classing out a certain steer or steers so that their buddies can win. I am not trying to say it doesnt happen, it does happen and like I said it has always happened and most likely always will happen. What I was trying to say was that people just need to get used to it and enjoy the experience because it isnt gonna change. I was also saying I dont think its fair to the kids and families that put in so much hard work, a lot of times people start throwing around these accusations without any proof or because they herd that someone else told somebody that they herd that someone said that is what happens. I just think it really cheapens the success that these kids have worked so hard to gain and that isnt fair at all.
Like I said in an earlier post, I think we would all like to see the system be more fool proof, but I also think it could be a whole lot worse. I have had my share of politics work against me, or classifying bite me in the butt. Sometimes it was my fault for taking a gamble, sometimes it was politics, sometimes it was simply because the classifiers werent completely competent. But you just have to roll with the punches and get up and go on to the next show and try again. If you cant do that then you are in for a lot of heartache and stress in this business and would probably be happier if you just got out of it.
Like I said in an earlier post, I think we would all like to see the system be more fool proof, but I also think it could be a whole lot worse. I have had my share of politics work against me, or classifying bite me in the butt. Sometimes it was my fault for taking a gamble, sometimes it was politics, sometimes it was simply because the classifiers werent completely competent. But you just have to roll with the punches and get up and go on to the next show and try again. If you cant do that then you are in for a lot of heartache and stress in this business and would probably be happier if you just got out of it.
Telos
Well-known member
I think cattle should be classified by color, horns or scures, and ear; All black- polled cattle should class Angus. Shorthorn marked, Shorthorns. Etc..This is how buyers classify them. IMO, there is just no practical way to sort purebreds and be fair about it.
I believe that it's important to remember that those classifying steers aren't trying to guess what breed they are. There is a set of characteristics that everyone knows, that are applied and these people are charged with seeing if the calf meets these. It's not the intention to separate calves into actual breeds but rather separated calves into smaller groups that can be judged. Some shows just show by weight and ignore breed. Classifying is just another way to break down a large number of animals into smaller numbers so they can be judged. If those who are doing the classification kick out a purebred Angus steer they are not saying he's not a purebred, they are saying he doesn't meet the criteria they have been given.
The biggest most foul cussing out I have ever witnessed occurred when a Hereford calf was kicked into the crossbreds here. An older gentleman who has raised Herefords since he was a child had a grandson trying to show a steer he had raised. To the grandpa, these men were telling him he was a liar and this was not a purebred Hereford steer. The event involved security and eventually the police and I seriously can't believe some very well known judges made it out of that day intact. But if the man had known they weren't saying his calf wasn't a Hereford, just that it didn't meet the criteria for the division NAMED"Herefords," maybe he wouldn't have been so upset. And I think that is where lots of complaints come from int he classification process as well as that criteria not being consistently applied. Similar to judging the actual show.
I would have no problem with having registered steers and doing away with the expense of the classification process. There are, of course,problems with that scenario as well. One thing that several breed associations do here is beyond me. For me it's one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of. They give money to the champion and reserve champion of what ever their breed happens to be. For instance if he has a blaze face or some white on his belly he is a Simmental. I have no idea why one is a Limmi they look just like the Chi's here. Anyway, why would the Simmental association want to give money to a steer that has no more Simmental in him than I do? I think that if state breed associations would sponsor the major show divisions of their respective breeds, including both the prize money and cost of DNA for the champions to prove at least 1/2 of their respective breeds many of these complaints would go away and the breed associations would be able to promote their breed as well instead of some 10 way cross with a blaze face.
Also one good thing here is that the Angus Association sponsors a "side" show for registered Angus steers. That way those who had purebred steers that got kicked out still have a shot at what they have made into a prestigious event. I think its a great idea.
The biggest most foul cussing out I have ever witnessed occurred when a Hereford calf was kicked into the crossbreds here. An older gentleman who has raised Herefords since he was a child had a grandson trying to show a steer he had raised. To the grandpa, these men were telling him he was a liar and this was not a purebred Hereford steer. The event involved security and eventually the police and I seriously can't believe some very well known judges made it out of that day intact. But if the man had known they weren't saying his calf wasn't a Hereford, just that it didn't meet the criteria for the division NAMED"Herefords," maybe he wouldn't have been so upset. And I think that is where lots of complaints come from int he classification process as well as that criteria not being consistently applied. Similar to judging the actual show.
I would have no problem with having registered steers and doing away with the expense of the classification process. There are, of course,problems with that scenario as well. One thing that several breed associations do here is beyond me. For me it's one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of. They give money to the champion and reserve champion of what ever their breed happens to be. For instance if he has a blaze face or some white on his belly he is a Simmental. I have no idea why one is a Limmi they look just like the Chi's here. Anyway, why would the Simmental association want to give money to a steer that has no more Simmental in him than I do? I think that if state breed associations would sponsor the major show divisions of their respective breeds, including both the prize money and cost of DNA for the champions to prove at least 1/2 of their respective breeds many of these complaints would go away and the breed associations would be able to promote their breed as well instead of some 10 way cross with a blaze face.
Also one good thing here is that the Angus Association sponsors a "side" show for registered Angus steers. That way those who had purebred steers that got kicked out still have a shot at what they have made into a prestigious event. I think its a great idea.
Gonewest, I saw a Shorty steer a friend of mine raised get kicked to crossbred one year - he was solid white and had been classed shorty all year. I felt bad for him even though he would've competed against us. We had beat him all year except for one ring at one show but I still would've liked to have competed against him for all the marbles. We went on to be State Champ Shorty and Reserve Grand that year ..... But he did ask the judge what would've happened and he said that calf would've been Reserve Shorty behind us ....... Still I felt bad for him b/c I knew he got the shaft in that deal. He as well as I would've each had more satisfaction seeing it done in the ring.
JSchroeder
Well-known member
I understand the good intentions of that suggestion but l still don't think you guys fully grasp the size of the shows down here. At a show like San Antonio, that would cost $18,000/yr just for the scholarships that are given to the champion and reserve champion. That's more than the yearly budgets for some (if not most) of the dozen or so state breed associations you'd be talking about.
kfacres
Well-known member
CAB said:
just as easy to cheat-- happens all the time.. I can name one steer that showed at IL- a papered show-0- that had no Sim in him.. and I can name a "brother" to that calf-- which is not out of that cow- or from a Sim bull. But he could be one of the most popular Sim bulls of today...
OLD WORLD SHORTIE
Well-known member
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afhm
Well-known member
They may get the pics up fast but that's the only good thing about them imo. The one tall dark haired guy is always very rude and their pics are not near as good as baron or barker's are.Jeff_Schroeder said:
Pleasant Grove Farms
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2011
- Messages
- 199
might as well stir up more trouble here!!!!
this is taken from Cattle.com site......just another train of thought on the whole
matter......
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 06, 2012
By and large, the grand champions at the biggest of the big stock shows are just a bit like sausage. They’re a great, inspiring story until you start looking into how they’re made. That’s not to say that I don’t love putting a few links on the BBQ, I’d just prefer to not think about what exactly it is I’m eating most of the time.
That being said, once, just once, I’d like to see a kid that wins a Texas major be honest when they do that interview with the local press at the auction. They always go the same way, some reporter who’s never touched a calf asks what the kid’s going to do with the money and the kid says “pay for college”. The reporter asks where they’re going to go to school and if their grades are good enough they say Texas A&M...unless they're from the panhandle in which case they say Texas Tech.
What would an honest interview sound like?
Reporter - “So what are you going to do with the money?”
Kid - “I’m going to go to college of course.”
Reporter – “Oh wow, that is amazing, do you want to take a moment to say thank you to the buyers for supporting the youth in the state of Texas?”
Kid – “Well, about that, can I be honest with you?”
Reporter - “Sure, of course”
Kid – “I don’t want to mislead anybody, ‘supporting Texas youth’ might be a bit of a stretch here. Yeah, sure, the people who actually profit from this whole game; the guy I bought the calf from, the guy he bought it from, the guy he bought the genetics from, and the sale managers and jocks that facilitated all of those sales may or may not have kids. Some of them do, sure, but I saw that he did pretty good here in Ft Worth too. The thing is, a very good portion of the net profit from all of this goes to professional show steer guys up in Oklahoma. So sure, it sounds really good and all but I don’t know if that counts as supporting youth in the state of Texas.”
Reporter – “Professionals?”
Kid – “Yeah, the guys whose entire living is based on buying and selling these steers when they're babies. There's nothing really wrong with it, this is a free country and there's a demand for it, I just don't want you guys to be mislead as to where this money actually goes.”
Reporter – “But you just said you were going to use the money for college?”
Kid - “Well, yeah, kind of. My family is rich and paying for college was never going to be an issue for me. Frankly, if I were really doing this for college money we wouldn’t have won because we wouldn’t have spent the money you have to in order to win. You see, my dad could have sent me to Texas A&M and had enough left over to send another kid as well if we’d have just saved the money we spent on this big guy here and put it in a savings account. If we would have just not shown steers this year we could have sent half a dozen kids to school on really good scholarships.”
Reporter - “Ummmm…”
Kid - “And another thing, I know we just brought $xxx,xxx through the sale but please wish me luck down the road because I really need to win big at the next major too.”
Reporter - “WHAT? Why?”
Kid - “Well, you see, this isn’t the only $xx,xxx calf I have. We actually have a whole string of them at home, each of them likely worth more than your car, you know, being a journalism major and all.”
Reporter - “A string?”
Kid - “Yeah, we started out with a dozen $xx,xxx calves but sold a few to other rich families, sent a few to the auction barn because they didn't pan out, some just won't be good enough to win a major, and long story short, we’re down to only half a dozen or so of them now.”
Reporter - “ummm, back to you guys?
this is taken from Cattle.com site......just another train of thought on the whole
matter......
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 06, 2012
By and large, the grand champions at the biggest of the big stock shows are just a bit like sausage. They’re a great, inspiring story until you start looking into how they’re made. That’s not to say that I don’t love putting a few links on the BBQ, I’d just prefer to not think about what exactly it is I’m eating most of the time.
That being said, once, just once, I’d like to see a kid that wins a Texas major be honest when they do that interview with the local press at the auction. They always go the same way, some reporter who’s never touched a calf asks what the kid’s going to do with the money and the kid says “pay for college”. The reporter asks where they’re going to go to school and if their grades are good enough they say Texas A&M...unless they're from the panhandle in which case they say Texas Tech.
What would an honest interview sound like?
Reporter - “So what are you going to do with the money?”
Kid - “I’m going to go to college of course.”
Reporter – “Oh wow, that is amazing, do you want to take a moment to say thank you to the buyers for supporting the youth in the state of Texas?”
Kid – “Well, about that, can I be honest with you?”
Reporter - “Sure, of course”
Kid – “I don’t want to mislead anybody, ‘supporting Texas youth’ might be a bit of a stretch here. Yeah, sure, the people who actually profit from this whole game; the guy I bought the calf from, the guy he bought it from, the guy he bought the genetics from, and the sale managers and jocks that facilitated all of those sales may or may not have kids. Some of them do, sure, but I saw that he did pretty good here in Ft Worth too. The thing is, a very good portion of the net profit from all of this goes to professional show steer guys up in Oklahoma. So sure, it sounds really good and all but I don’t know if that counts as supporting youth in the state of Texas.”
Reporter – “Professionals?”
Kid – “Yeah, the guys whose entire living is based on buying and selling these steers when they're babies. There's nothing really wrong with it, this is a free country and there's a demand for it, I just don't want you guys to be mislead as to where this money actually goes.”
Reporter – “But you just said you were going to use the money for college?”
Kid - “Well, yeah, kind of. My family is rich and paying for college was never going to be an issue for me. Frankly, if I were really doing this for college money we wouldn’t have won because we wouldn’t have spent the money you have to in order to win. You see, my dad could have sent me to Texas A&M and had enough left over to send another kid as well if we’d have just saved the money we spent on this big guy here and put it in a savings account. If we would have just not shown steers this year we could have sent half a dozen kids to school on really good scholarships.”
Reporter - “Ummmm…”
Kid - “And another thing, I know we just brought $xxx,xxx through the sale but please wish me luck down the road because I really need to win big at the next major too.”
Reporter - “WHAT? Why?”
Kid - “Well, you see, this isn’t the only $xx,xxx calf I have. We actually have a whole string of them at home, each of them likely worth more than your car, you know, being a journalism major and all.”
Reporter - “A string?”
Kid - “Yeah, we started out with a dozen $xx,xxx calves but sold a few to other rich families, sent a few to the auction barn because they didn't pan out, some just won't be good enough to win a major, and long story short, we’re down to only half a dozen or so of them now.”
Reporter - “ummm, back to you guys?
JSchroeder
Well-known member
I wouldn't pay much attention to that guy, I heard he's an a**h***.
CAB
Well-known member
Jeff_Schroeder said:
That's a good one Jeff.
As afr as the "classifiction" issue, why don't they call it a sift? It may be easier to swallow for some. It sounds like that is more of what it really is.
twistedhshowstock
Well-known member
Because its not a sift. Ft Worth is the only one of the majors where if the classifiers dont think your animal is what you think it is you get disqualified. At the rest of the majors, if I go in and try to class one as an Angus and the classifiers say he isnt an Angus, I just get kicked to the AOB class not disqualified. Also, for the pigs at Houston, they go through a sift and then get classed. For instance, if I have a Chester then I am going to go into the Chester sift and if the judge says my barrow is good enough to go in the ring then I go to the classifiers. So its really not a sift.
Also a comment on Schroeder's cattle.com post there. Nothing against Jeff, but I think that is a little unfair also. It kinda belittles people for accepting or spending money. Come on, everything in our society today is about money. The Presidential race will be decided largely based on who can raise the most money, buy the most votes, and afford to run the most ads belittleing their opponent. Most sports are largely decided by which entity has the money to put the best team on the field. Business is largely decided by which entities can afford the best equipment, staff, marketing, etc. I dont know that you intended it that way, but to me that really belittled the industry. Come on a lot of these big guys arent out to rip people off. If you look at prices placed on these animals they a lot of times arent that bad. its the ones in sales that get to $xx,xxx. But here is the thing even if they have a fairly cheap price on an animal and put it in a sale and someone gets in a bidding war over it and it gets to $xx,xxx, what do you expect them to do, stop the sale and say no, you can have it but I only had him priced this high so thats all I am going to accept. I sure as hell wouldnt do that and you wouldnt either. And yes people with more money typically do better because they can afford to buy the better calf, when it comes to an auction its just simple math, in a bidding game people with less money are gonna run out of money long before people with more money.. Again its just the name of the game, bu more so here its just life, thats the way our society works and thats the way it always will work.
Also a comment on Schroeder's cattle.com post there. Nothing against Jeff, but I think that is a little unfair also. It kinda belittles people for accepting or spending money. Come on, everything in our society today is about money. The Presidential race will be decided largely based on who can raise the most money, buy the most votes, and afford to run the most ads belittleing their opponent. Most sports are largely decided by which entity has the money to put the best team on the field. Business is largely decided by which entities can afford the best equipment, staff, marketing, etc. I dont know that you intended it that way, but to me that really belittled the industry. Come on a lot of these big guys arent out to rip people off. If you look at prices placed on these animals they a lot of times arent that bad. its the ones in sales that get to $xx,xxx. But here is the thing even if they have a fairly cheap price on an animal and put it in a sale and someone gets in a bidding war over it and it gets to $xx,xxx, what do you expect them to do, stop the sale and say no, you can have it but I only had him priced this high so thats all I am going to accept. I sure as hell wouldnt do that and you wouldnt either. And yes people with more money typically do better because they can afford to buy the better calf, when it comes to an auction its just simple math, in a bidding game people with less money are gonna run out of money long before people with more money.. Again its just the name of the game, bu more so here its just life, thats the way our society works and thats the way it always will work.
JSchroeder
Well-known member
I can certainly see how it might have come across that way but that wasn't the intention at all. Apart from the comments on it, people have read so many different things into that post. The public and private response to it, both positive and negative, has honestly been the most interesting thing I've seen in half a decade of writing that blog. Both sides have read more into it than what I intended.
Regarding some of the negative feedback...
IF somebody thought I was attacking a specific family - nothing could be further from the truth. Due to the timing and some of the abstract 'details', yeah, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume on families but I have heard and seen nothing but good things about the family some people thought I was attacking and have nothing but respect for them.
Some thought I was attacking the jocks - again, not true. They're the ones that profit from it but I'm not faulting them for it. I guess I incorrectly assumed the "There's nothing really wrong with it, it's a free country" part would have made that clear. Being a bit too subtle with the exceptions in a post like that has always been a problem of mine.
Some thought I was attacking showing cattle all together - again, not the case. I'm not AJ and abhor that 'show people' bashing rhetoric. Regarding all of the stuff people think I was slamming in that post, I’m pretty much apathetic to anything but misleading people. Like a chiched middle manager I use the phrase "it is what it is" like it's going out of style.
What actually inspired that post was a Facebook post gushing over the sale price of the calf and how much it helps Texas youth.
Regarding some of the negative feedback...
IF somebody thought I was attacking a specific family - nothing could be further from the truth. Due to the timing and some of the abstract 'details', yeah, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume on families but I have heard and seen nothing but good things about the family some people thought I was attacking and have nothing but respect for them.
Some thought I was attacking the jocks - again, not true. They're the ones that profit from it but I'm not faulting them for it. I guess I incorrectly assumed the "There's nothing really wrong with it, it's a free country" part would have made that clear. Being a bit too subtle with the exceptions in a post like that has always been a problem of mine.
Some thought I was attacking showing cattle all together - again, not the case. I'm not AJ and abhor that 'show people' bashing rhetoric. Regarding all of the stuff people think I was slamming in that post, I’m pretty much apathetic to anything but misleading people. Like a chiched middle manager I use the phrase "it is what it is" like it's going out of style.
What actually inspired that post was a Facebook post gushing over the sale price of the calf and how much it helps Texas youth.
Show Dad
Well-known member
One thing is for sure, the classification system in TX doesn't allow for breed improvement. If a breed needs more thickness and a breeder goes about doing that, tuff! Because of the inherent bias and corruption of the system there will never be an Angus "good enough". (Not taking into account corrupt judges ) 
JMHO
<alien>
JMHO
<alien>
Bradenh
Well-known member
^^^^^ you nailed it
kobo_ranch
Well-known member
Jeff_Schroeder said:
Waaaat... you mean you're not gonna jump his a** like you did with me!?? That's goes back to what I was wondering about when I said 'hummm'...
