Global trade just is not fair!

[Show Heifer]

OK, first it was tainted pet food with a substance that IS BANNED IN THE UNITED STATES.  Now there seems to be evidence of tainted toothpaste with proplyene glycol (basically antifreeze). And both of these came/or orginated from CHINA. Yet, we keep importing their pet food, and toothpaste.  
Yet when we can't prove documentation on a beef product (nothing wrong with product just the paper work)  Japan shuts us off IMMEDIATELY.
And why for heavens sake are we importing wheat gluten anyway????
Why is that fair? ???

 

[knabe]

ok i can't resist

this post sounds like me, what gives ;D

really, the powers that keep negotiating away our sovereignty are our elected officials, and yes it all starts locally, and why we keep electing these jerks is beyond me, except for the fact that capitalism isn't even remotely understood by any significant population of graduated high school seniors, evidenced byt the fact they cant' balance their feed ration or their checkbook.  In california yesterday, a decsion was handed down to not allow high schoolers to take the exit exam in spanish.  it's only a matter of time by demographics that this will be overturned.  In Hollister Ca, where i live, I hear more spanish than english whereever i go, and this has changed dramatically in the last 5 years.  chertoff said the other day, there are some that want corporal punishment for illegals.  i find this comment outrageous.  i want the law enforced, not new ones with every loophole inthe book geared towards preferences for those who are not american citizens, but foot the bill for the dissolution of borders, and progress in the name of diversity.  for english, press dos.

communism goals
dissolve religion, morals, family.  it's all there in black and white.  when was the last law you saw passed that was clearly capitalistic and not socialist and redistribution of wealth?

 

[shorthorns r us]

knabe - are you seriously asking the american people to think.  to quote forrest gump, "that's all i have to say about that."

 

[knabe]

well, i guess if they don't, then i am asking them not to vote.  :  on this topic, i'm not real good at trying to be funny.

 

[cowz]

OK, first it was tainted pet food with a substance that IS BANNED IN THE UNITED STATES.  Now there seems to be evidence of tainted toothpaste with proplyene glycol (basically antifreeze). And both of these came/or orginated from CHINA. Yet, we keep importing their pet food, and toothpaste.  
Yet when we can't prove documentation on a beef product (nothing wrong with product just the paper work)  Japan shuts us off IMMEDIATELY.
And why for heavens sake are we importing wheat gluten anyway????
Why is that fair? ???

EXACTLY!!!!  Why would one of the 2 (us and Canada) biggest wheat producing countries need to freight wheat over here!  Do those freight ships run on solar power?

Also, we have to import red meat from countries with absolutely no quality assurance program, yet we get dinged for single occurances!!!  What are we thinking, folks?

 

[red]

That's what I thought at the very beginning about the pet foods. It just didn't make sense to me why we'd buy midds from China. It's one more thing that slants our trade deficit the other way.

Red

 

[chambero]

Because we want to sell them other stuff.  "Stuff" made by companies that donate lots of money to our elected officials.  In all honesty, I think global trade is a good thing, we just need to apply a little common sense on making them use at least similar quality assurance controls that we do.  You can't make a comparison between China and Japan - they are as different as night and day.  China is responsible for a lot of our price increases for metal and fuel due to the amazing building boom they've got going on.  It probably isn't sustainable, but right now they spend lots of money.  The Chinese market for many, many U.S. products is expected to grow exponentially.  That and the already tense relations we have is why we don't want to unnecessarily hack them off over trade.  We have more important problems elsewhere right now unfortunately.

We cannot exist as an isolated country.  The world just doesn't work that way.  We'd be broke if we had to pay costs for all goods we want based on our labor costs.  Our people want to make more money (justifiably so) so we have to spend our efforts on higher value services and products.

Things ain't perfect over here, but we have by far the highest standard of living in the world.  The trade deficit is just the cost of doing business.  Buy your dog food from a local feed mill that makes it.

 

[shorthorns r us]

know that i intend ABSOLUTELY no humor.  this relates to a variety of issues about which i hold strong opinions.  in that movie, after speaking on topics about which he believed strongly or had intense emotion and intended to discuss no further, he would say that line; which i quoted.

 

[knabe]

thanks shorthorns r us
chambero, couple things.  i don't think anyone, at least not me, is advocating isolation.  for me, it's about balance, and when we are worried about hacking them off, there is not balance when the are not worried about hacking us off.  not only isn't their economy sustainable, they rely on us to support their growth, fooling them and us into thinking we have to cave on the balance which allows our controls and checks to flourish in their country to safeguard the public.  my poster for china is the yangste river project and humans penchant for putting cities along rivers that flood as the best place for people.  it's the best place for crops, not people.  it's the only place where soil is replenished at a rapid rate, although in this sense, it's not replenished i guess, it's relaid down.  in the chase for ever lower labor costs, and essentially slavery in some places, there is insufficient pressure to raise labor costs in most parts of the world.  if the cost of the donations were taken out of the cost to supply goods in a normal economic transaction were eliminated, costs would go down.  there is insufficient pressure on markets that allow a swoosh on one shoe to cost over $100 and no swish on a genex shoe for $20.  if the swoosh infrastructure had sufficient pressure, converse could still compete.  our government allows this to happen, as does the american people, which promotes a pyramid scheme and consolidation of profits.  our founding fathers, hamilton and adams in particular, definately not washington, who was busy surveying the frontier and purchasing it from the british and others on the cheap, saw distributed markets as the key to a free society.  china currently is the source of 50% of the worlds manufacturing, and it's getting worse, although there is some recent competition.  we should tax/tariff socialism as equally as it taxes capitalism, which of course could not exist without capitalism, which always eliminates markets as it creates new ones, which socialism doesn't do very well, which is of course why it needs capitalism.  one way to start to lower our labor costs is to reduce the automatic withdrawls for health care before we see it in our paychecks by reducing the infrastructure necessary to report every little detail to the government for reimbursement.  but no, we have to push for a single payer, socialist system, as no one sees that as you ration health care, you eliminate development and capital.  i don't want a dmv health care plan, but most indoctrinated by the school system for the last 25 years do and it's only getting worse.  markets adjust, and we are not allowing them to adjust because we all think the depression was all bad.  more on that later i'm sure.

two quotes, you can't tax yourself into prosperity and you can't lift up a bucket while standing in it. 

 

[aj]

Well put knabe. I'm tired of hearing about how awfull capitalism is and we need goverment health care and we are so mean to poverty stricken people. The poverty level in the u.s. is a paradise to most people in the world. Socialism would be great if it worked. It doesn't work. Once you take the incentive out the mix, inovations and hard work disapears. Last time I looked people were trying to break into this country not trying to get out. Long live capitalism. (clapping)

 

[knabe]

here is a link with a list of refused shipments from china and why.

http://www.fda.gov/ora/oasis/4/ora_oasis_c_cn.html

257 refusals of chinese products in April
140 from mexico
23 from canada

i couldn't find how many from america had these problems

also this

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01639.html

I refuse to eat food from any country which uses human excrement to fertilize with.  China and Mexico are on that list.  In China, there are "canals" which go directly from the outhouse directly to the fields with NO post processing.  be very aware.

and finally this, trade agreements actually undermine our food safety chain.

http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/fish/fish-global-trade

Countries should be able to define their own food and agriculture policies, protect their citizens from unsafe products and practices, and give local fishing communities priority in the sustainable use of natural resources.

i agree with the last statement, but not clear as to what this means as far as subsidies, tariffs, etc.  in other words, what is fair trade as opposed to free trade.  to me, free trade means free labor, slavery. 

so where does the money go for the disparity in one countrie's ability to produce a product cheaper because they have little safety protection, no property rights etc.  calculate something and give it to the equivalent in the US, or just put it in the treasury, don't allow it's import?  this IS the big question.  this is my current area of economic study at the moment.

 

[DL]

h

I refuse to eat food from any country which uses human excrement to fertilize with.  China and Mexico are on that list.  In China, there are "canals" which go directly from the outhouse directly to the fields with NO post processing.  be very aware.

WOW are you picky!  ;D ;D What I found totally amazing (besides the fact that we import wheat gluten from China that is "fortified" with a fertilizer and component of plastic ware (melamine) to increase it's measured protein content so it is "worth more") and besides the fact that apparently we are the biggest exporter of rice gluten (go figure) in the world is that the vast majority of all dog foods are produced in the same plants using the same ingredients - the "high end" products say they have their own recipes - but geeze people are paying 2 and 3 times regular dog food prices for their premium food and it lives right next door to fido's best.  Somehow I thought the "superior quality foods" (Science Diet, Iams, Nutro etc) were made in their own plant by little science diet elves...but alas I was mistaken. I am aware of only 2 companies that use "human grade" components for their dog food that is made in their own plants - Merrick and Wysong - just when you think life is boring....another tidbit hit the wall ;D

 

[knabe]

same thing with vegetables.  the same packing plant called gilroy foods does the packing for a variety of labels, and it's hard to believe there is that much difference between the store label and the "premium" label.  on difference i have found that is readily discernable is sweet corn.  most of it is just well, bland.  the ONLY brand out there that has corn that tastes remotely off the cob is a label out here called trader joes.  i was SHOCKED it was so sweet, and the price is right too.  they sell organic stuff, but are not evangelistic about it and offer a choic, both with their own label.  that's why i like to shop there as oppossed to say whole foods, who if you didn't take something with you out the door, you would think it was a religion.