muleman
Well-known member
What are your thoughts on a bull that will produce that show steer look without the high birth weights. I am breeding for steers so do not care about th or pha, the heifers will be used as market beef. Thanks.
Heatwave Alternative?
- Thread starter muleman
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muleman
Well-known member
The cows are simmi angus or maine angus, thanks, Steve
showsteerdlux
Well-known member
Maybe sunseeker, carnac, bold statement. How about monopoly or friction?
afhm
Well-known member
I am hoping Point Taken will, I am going to breed him (something I normally don't do with rookies) this year.
Telos
Well-known member
I really liked Point Taken too. Thought he had what it takes for making an extra good steer, according to the video.
Jill
Well-known member
This is just my 2 cents, and you may not agree, but it is my opinion.
I don't think there is an alternative for Heat Wave, if there was, he would no longer be on the market. He is a TH carrier, can't walk, looks terrible at stud and in my opinion has not produced anything that will replace him. You as a breeder have a choice of knowing your cows and what can take a Heat Wave (we have no more pulls with Heat Wave than we do with any other bull on the market) or breed to a bull that will produce a little less of the freaky, steery, massive look, your going to give up something, you just need to decide what you are comfortable with.
I don't think there is an alternative for Heat Wave, if there was, he would no longer be on the market. He is a TH carrier, can't walk, looks terrible at stud and in my opinion has not produced anything that will replace him. You as a breeder have a choice of knowing your cows and what can take a Heat Wave (we have no more pulls with Heat Wave than we do with any other bull on the market) or breed to a bull that will produce a little less of the freaky, steery, massive look, your going to give up something, you just need to decide what you are comfortable with.
Friction would be except his semen is of very poor quality. (i.e. SEK won't carry it.).
If you really don't want something from the Heat Seeker/Heat Wave lines (almost all of the bulls promoted are TH carriers), I'd go back to some older bulls from either the Full Flush or Habanero lines. Problem is they may be a little too tall for what really wins now.
I'm looking for the same thing and haven't found it yet. If you are going to use a TH carrier, you might as well use Heat Wave and make sure you don't get your cows too fat.
Or go with a colored bull. You can find some options there.
If you really don't want something from the Heat Seeker/Heat Wave lines (almost all of the bulls promoted are TH carriers), I'd go back to some older bulls from either the Full Flush or Habanero lines. Problem is they may be a little too tall for what really wins now.
I'm looking for the same thing and haven't found it yet. If you are going to use a TH carrier, you might as well use Heat Wave and make sure you don't get your cows too fat.
Or go with a colored bull. You can find some options there.
OH Breeder
Well-known member
Chambero,chambero said:
Glad you said this. I have never used Full Flush. I was reading the ad in SEK for SMoke Signal the full flush + calamaty Jane. It says to use him like you would Full FLush. What woudl you use Full FLush on?
Two- Why does no one carry Friction. I thought SEK did for a while? WHo carries it and why is it so expensive?
I tried to buy Friction semen from SEK last fall and they told me over the phone that they didn't carry it because it didn't meet their quality requirements. I think he is almost sterile based on what I've heard + experienced the one time I used him (one calf out of ten bred). However, I'd call Caldwell's and ask them for sure. He may still be producing a little and the demand exceeds the very limited supply. He is a good bull and the one calf I got out of him is a super heifer that is now a bred.
Full Flush is a taller bull that worked wonderful on Meyer cows in particular. I think that was the combo that Kephart really had going in the early 90s. His calves tend to be taller now than what they really use. There are really just a few steer bloodlines being used now:
Heat Seeker-Heat Wave
Habanero-Lifeline (mostly on Charolais cows)
Full Flush-Friction (others include Black Rhino who I keep thinking about using again)
Who Made Who - Dr Who/Hannibal
The Full Flush line and WMH line tends to produce taller calves. Habanero-Lifeline tends not to be thick enough on the steers out of black cows - thus their use on Charolais cows which has dominated our slick sheer shows down here.
There isn't anything touching the Heat Seeker-Heat Wave lines right now.
Full Flush is a taller bull that worked wonderful on Meyer cows in particular. I think that was the combo that Kephart really had going in the early 90s. His calves tend to be taller now than what they really use. There are really just a few steer bloodlines being used now:
Heat Seeker-Heat Wave
Habanero-Lifeline (mostly on Charolais cows)
Full Flush-Friction (others include Black Rhino who I keep thinking about using again)
Who Made Who - Dr Who/Hannibal
The Full Flush line and WMH line tends to produce taller calves. Habanero-Lifeline tends not to be thick enough on the steers out of black cows - thus their use on Charolais cows which has dominated our slick sheer shows down here.
There isn't anything touching the Heat Seeker-Heat Wave lines right now.
OH Breeder
Well-known member
Thank you for the information. I have a Meyer cow that is shorter in stature but deep sided. I used Sunseeker on her this year and thought if it turns out, then I would try Smoke Signal on her for next year. I am assuming that Flush son's might add some extension to the neck? She is little shorter necked and finer boned.
Great info. Thank you.
Great info. Thank you.
Jill
Well-known member
Full Flush should work on what you have described, I don't know about the sons, but the Full Flushes I have seen have REALLY bad dispositions.
Yep - that old Full Throttle attitude is hard to get rid of. We never had a full throttle steer that wasn't a handful. The devils were good, but no fun to mess with. I have been around some Flush calves that were ok, but some did need an axe between the eyes. For what its worth, I always had more luck with those calves being very patient and easy with them. Some calves we've had got better after a good attitude adjustment, but with Throttles and Flushes that never worked. You had to just win them over.
BCCC
Well-known member
Well I was looking through the sek catoluge, and saw a couple bulls, that I think might be worth a little bit. What do you guys think about all aboard, and my turn??
chambero said:
I am going to say that over the years I have had five or more WMW steers, two of wwhich turned out, and they have always been the shortest. Also had one black rhino calf that was real small and hard to finish. I like heatwave and the way his calves look in the end, and I don't like the look of alot of Flush/Who cattle when they are fat. Heatwaves just have the look and the feel at the beginig and the end. They are hard to beat!
I never used WMH himself. We do own a Hannibal son that is larger-framed bull. I've got some Hannibal calves on the ground this year, but couldn't tell you one way or the other how big they are going to be. It's my understanding the Hannibal calves are taller animals in general. I think Dr. Who calves can be bigger also (at least based on the heifers I've seen out of him).
The Full Flush lines I've used (Full Flush himself, a bull called Buzz, and Full Form that I can think of) have generally been bigger calves for us, but our cows are on the big side anyway. The best Full Form calf (made the sale in Houston in 06 as a Chi) I raised was pretty short though.
A real good heifer we sold has been bred and flushed almost exclusively to Habanero her whole life. Her calves out of him are fairly short - too small on the heifers. The steers are good though. We've got a couple of Lifeline x Angus sons that are pretty short. We've used Kadabra quite a bit and they are all pretty short. Got a real good red steer out of him this year. I don't like structure on most of them though. We've had some problems.
There is no doubt that nothing is touching Heat Seeker-Heat Wave right now. We've got our first calves out of those lines (Golden Child, Almost Famous, and Bold Statement) getting weaned right now.
The Full Flush lines I've used (Full Flush himself, a bull called Buzz, and Full Form that I can think of) have generally been bigger calves for us, but our cows are on the big side anyway. The best Full Form calf (made the sale in Houston in 06 as a Chi) I raised was pretty short though.
A real good heifer we sold has been bred and flushed almost exclusively to Habanero her whole life. Her calves out of him are fairly short - too small on the heifers. The steers are good though. We've got a couple of Lifeline x Angus sons that are pretty short. We've used Kadabra quite a bit and they are all pretty short. Got a real good red steer out of him this year. I don't like structure on most of them though. We've had some problems.
There is no doubt that nothing is touching Heat Seeker-Heat Wave right now. We've got our first calves out of those lines (Golden Child, Almost Famous, and Bold Statement) getting weaned right now.
Telos
Well-known member
My prediction... One day soon and probably in our life time, there will be a show steer producing 'Jessie' that is both TH and PHA clean . He will out produce Heat Wave without the throw aways. His females will have maternal qualities as well. Hair will not be relevant for his calves will be so smooth and complete it simply won't matter. He will also be so inbred-linebred that consistency will not be of a concern. He will stamp his calves with the look and never throw a calf that is cripplled but only completely sound no matter what cow you use him on. The only competition will be from his other half brothers and a good showman.
shortyisqueen
Well-known member
Maybe you should have named him 'Dreamin' Big,' Telos 
Telos
Well-known member
Well, I did mean to say his other sons will be the only competition.shortyisqueen said:Maybe you should have named him 'Dreamin' Big,' Telos
Come on Shortyqueen, it could happen. ;D
JSchroeder
Well-known member
...and then we'll discover FHR, a new genetic defect that he was evidently the first carrier for that causes calves to drop dead shortly after weaning if they get the gene from both parents.
afhm
Well-known member
Jason do you have more videos from Denver yet to post or have you done all you have? Thanks for providing that service for us.
