Hello Shorthorn Breeders

[comercialfarmer]

Mark,

Brother, just edit your original post, there is a button to do that.  And no body grades spelling, except the hypocritical and then that just makes for way more fun later.

When you correct yourself that many times on grammar or spelling, it is like being in a big argument, making the announcement "I'm leaving", then slamming the door only to realize you locked yourself out and your car keys are still inside.

It just isn't the same effect.   

 

[EaglesNest]

Here is a link to a guy rasing black fullblood Salers: http://www.b-blivestock.com/id17.html
His black herd bull is named RTR MEGA MARK 139J Reg #TP557661
Registration showing Black and fullblood status with the ASA: https://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=233021&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5C50275E5C27&9=5251
Have you seen some of the white (I mean Charolais white) purebreds produced in Canada?  They came from cattle upgraded from Charolais cross cows.  I am not making this one up either.
Learn about your breed before trying to call someone out.
Just corrected some typos. I'll get this right eventually!)

Again sir, If you had read my last post agreeing with AJ I said I was aware of black ones but that they were an american problem! So maybe YOU should pay more attention before you try to chastize people and you had to post it three times to get it right.

 

[aj]

This deal is gonna be one of those....."yes he's horned, but he has polled blood in him" ........right?

 

[frostback]

http://www.blurb.com/books/1955750-a-history-of-the-salers-breed-in-the-united-states

Here's a book on "history" and it reference black fullbloods on pages 63 to 70.
Here's a Registration #105630

Regn. No.: 105630 
Reg. Status Registered 
Sex: Bull 
Tattoo: 83027161(RightEar) 
Birth Date: 02/28/1983 
Calving Year: 1983 
Status: Active 
Type: Fullblood 
Breeder: LOUIS RONGERE 
Current Owner: 1ST BLACK SALERS SYNDICATE 
Horn: Horned 
Herd ID: 83027161 
Color: Black 
Progeny: [228 - View] [View by Herd] 
EPD Graph: [View] 
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      LAURIER (105621)
    NIXON (105624)
      COCARDE (100436)
  Sire: ROUGET (105628)
      VIETTO (105619)
    IDEALE (105622)
      BEQUE (105618)
Animal: PREMIER NOIR (105630)
  Dam: CARBOUNE (105626

He was the first imported black fullblood. He didn't start in the US.

 

[aj]

So whats the deal. I looked up his sire and dam.....and both had unknown breeders and unknowen owners. He is horned born in 1983? Which parent was black....his pedigree didn't say. Has he been parentally verified?

 

[OH Breeder]

So whats the deal. I looked up his sire and dam.....and both had unknown breeders and unknowen owners. He is horned born in 1983? Which parent was black....his pedigree didn't say. Has he been parentally verified?

If you read parts of book it says
...French selectively bred for red even though the cattle carried both genes. 6-7 black calves were born every year. Those that are born black must be typed and inspected to be accepted for registration. Pg 60

 

[frostback]

So whats the deal. I looked up his sire and dam.....and both had unknown breeders and unknowen owners. He is horned born in 1983? Which parent was black....his pedigree didn't say. Has he been parentally verified?

If you read parts of book it says
...French selectively bred for red even though the cattle carried both genes. 6-7 black calves were born every year. Those that are born black must be typed and inspected to be accepted for registration. Pg 60

As usual he will only read what he wants to make him look correct. He is just not man enough to admit he was wrong and could learn something new.

 

[aj]

What is the best source for pedigree's. Which parent was black.....in order to trace the pedigree.

 

[aj]

Or are you saying both parents were red?

 

[OH Breeder]

Or are you saying both parents were red?

If you take the time to read the history you will see parents carry both red and black gene but red has been selectively bred for. I would say at that time in history EITHER parent could have? I am not saying anything I read it in the history link. One click will take you right there. You will also see 1990 they imported all black heifer and bull. It's really interesting read.

 

[r.n.reed]

Eaglesnest I am glad you chose Shorthorn over Salers and all the other black breeds out there.
I hope you will have great success with your endeavor and welcome to the breed as well as this august Senate also known as the Big Show.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

RN REED-Do I have your permission to hassle SEK Genetics-and Cattle Visions-and get that red bulls semen where it will do some good?I charge 5 straws. He fits the currant transistion in the breed about as well as anything out there-AND ANSWERS the age old question- Wut are you gonna breed the Double Stuffs too? OOPs-its 2013-change that to the Solutions et-al. O0

 

[r.n.reed]

Permission granted.

 

[aj]

I looked back on over 20 of g,g and T salers bulls......on the computer pedigree lookup deal. Every one I looked up went back to Angus and or commercial base. I would guess that 95% of black Salers got their black from Angus in the USA. Did your black bull from 1981 sire any offspring? Following these old pedigrees is a great read also.

 

[OH Breeder]

I looked back on over 20 of g,g and T salers bulls......on the computer pedigree lookup deal. Every one I looked up went back to Angus and or commercial base. I would guess that 95% of black Salers got their black from Angus in the USA. Did your black bull from 1981 sire any offspring? Following these old pedigrees is a great read also.

Premier Noir 1983
https://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=233021&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=515C5D5A5B&9=53525B

 

[frostback]

https://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=233021&2=2428&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&8=4853&9=53525C

Go to this link, it shows 2000 Black registered Fullbloods. It only shows up to the Gs meaning there are many more.

I challange your statement that any original fullblood Salers was black. Give me a registration number.

Is this enough of what you asked for now?

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Well these post is making me curious.

I sent an email to UPRA Salers asking more details regarding black coat on France.

Reading some things about breed history, found that on 1900 the standard was designate and followed since.

Also that the coat is dark red or mahogany, maybe this can be a way for confusion as some dark red shades can assume black shades.

Regarding formation is a base mix of Iberic red breeds withan Roman Empire time infusion of Devon, also were used on breed some mix of Durham and West Highland. Well from these infusions the unique able to show black coat is the Highland.

But the first thing that cames to my mind is that color genetics tell us that black color dominate the red color, and in all breeds with black color time by time red ones can appear, as red is a recessive atavic gene. Never see the inverse, or red animals producing black ones.....never saw it on Angus, Holstein, Galloway, Welsh Blacks, Lidia breed or any other. Also as standard close on 1900 select for RED coat, on a century black genes could be eliminated easily as red not produce black....unless a black cow or bull has been mated with the red population, again introducing black dominant gene.

Hope get the UPRA answer soon and get a final answer for this matter.

 

[frostback]

I have not found anything to substantiate the rumor on the black being recessive. But there are a few Black fullblood registration #s.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

I have not found anything to substantiate the rumor on the black being recessive. But there are a few Black fullblood registration #s.

Black is dominant gene, red is recessive.
Not putting your comment in doubt. Is a interest topic as well.
Wish add information to all as well.
We need discuss, not fight!

 

[EaglesNest]

Eaglesnest I am glad you chose Shorthorn over Salers and all the other black breeds out there.
I hope you will have great success with your endeavor and welcome to the breed as well as this august Senate also known as the Big Show.

Thank you r.n. I enjoyed Salers when I raised them as primary breed, but when I decided to get back in I had difficulty finding red ones, which is my preference. Loved my slammer and prince animals. I still have some of the remnants of the salers herd but no longer register.
  I am enjoying my shorthorns just the same if not better.

The bottom line people have to raise whatever type of cattle they like and hopefully others will like them too.