help fast!!!!

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CAB

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  Dl, I agree, but take a look @ how many farmer /ranchers are having to leave their choice of profession, or have an off farm job to keep doing what they love doing. That, it's dirty long hours crap doesn't hold alot of water for most serious ag jobs. Cab
 

chambero

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Feb 12, 2007
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Texas
On the commercial side, most of what CAB says is correct - economically you usually have to just put an animal down - particularly if its just a calf - instead of spending a bunch of money with a vet on one. 

That being said, we have a good vet about 45 minutes away we make sure we take care of on as much routine stuff as we can afford to so that he will take care of us in an emergency.  We routinely use our vet for:

All palpation.  Costs a $1 or $2 more than we could get it done for but he's extremely accurate.  We make it fast and easy - which results in cheaper for us - by having good facilities and plenty of help to keep the cows/heifers moving through the chute as fast as he can check them.

Our group AIing.  Again, costs a little more, but not much.

We take the time and money to fertility test all bulls every year before putting them out.  Well worth the investment.

Calfhood bangs vaccinations.  I don't guess this one is an option, but he comes to us and does it in the pasture.

We don't use our vet for vaccinations, purchases of medicines, and routine "doctoring".  We order our drugs through a local supply company.  When something needs a prescription, they call our vet and get approval.  We literally save about 50-75% over what you get it for from a vet.  For example, I can buy a whole bottle of Draxxin for about what 2 or 3 shots costs from the vet.  On "routine" respiratory problems, if I can't get them well they might as well die.

Vets need to realize what the sensitive cost issues are.  I have a high school classmate who is very good with cattle.  However, he focuses his practice on small animals.  We tried to use him but the $200 trip fees don't sit too well.  We'll pay $50 for our local guy to show up, but won't use my friend anymore because of that.  If you look at it hard, most vets try to make about $100 an hour or a little better.  Frankly, that is pretty reasonable.  The good vets are the ones that will take into consideration your operation in their unit pricing.
 

dori36

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Jul 29, 2007
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Central Lower Michigan
cowsrcool said:
thank you for all the help. the calf is doing better, we finally got him to eat some last nite with help from my boss who breeds horses w/o having to tube him. he will mostly likely end up being a bottle calf because he doesnt want anything to do with the cow. we had to hold his head and massage his throat to get him to eat last nite. this morning the same thing but he did suck a little on his own. and then tonite he sucked on his own, but you have to hold his head up or he just lets it drop and stands there. this morning the guy that i usually get advice from stopped by and looked at him and gave him 10cc of iron and the same of b12 to help him along. there really is no large animal vets around here, the one i use for health papers and such is older and doesnt make emergency calls anymore and u have to book 2 weeks ahead for a farm call anyways. the other one is a equine vet for the barn that i work at, and its kinda hard to get them to come out for my 4 head counting the heifers me and my brother just showed this year. thank u again for the help and i will report back how he does

Not sure where you're from, but if it's in the Great Lakes region, you may be selenium deficient and if the cow wasn't being supplemented properly for selenium, the calf could need a shot for that.  The listless, failure-to-thrive calf is typical of a selenium deficient calf.  You'll need to get Musee or Bosee (spelling may be wrong) for him as an injection asap if that's the case.  It's amazing how fast they perk up after the selenium is administered!
 

knabe

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for comparison, a friend of mine owns a feedstore just south of me.  his son in law purchased a tractor trailer rig for about $160,000 that he's making payments on over $3000 month.  supposedly he clears 3-4k per week.  he also has a flatbed trailer he owns outright and i think another tractor, i could be wrong on that.  in the bay area, they pay regular truckers that don't have the tractor trailer rig, about 12-15 an hour.  if you drive a tractor trailer out of a large company, they hit you big on gas surcharge, don't always have something for you on the way back, lot's of problems.  my house payment is 2500/mo and i feel poor.  i can't remember the last button shirt i purchased.  how many shirts equal one cow?

anyway, the point of this is that america has too many subsidies, too many black markets, labor, illegal drugs etc that compete with people who are trying to follow the rules.  there are a lot of "cattle" people who have them for tax right offs, a few friends in OK do this, and have an oldster run their herds.  CA is notorious for this, the packard family of hewlett and packard fame do this and a few others.  when other countries don't have to compete with our infrastructure and regulations, tariffs seem outdated, but what do we do?  we let the USDA put OUR stamp on meat from another country.  OUR government, ourselves allow this to happen because companies that are transnational in nature recognize countries as an outdated system to limit commerce.  the problem begins when cultures collide and black markets are created within the void of lack of enforcement of contracts.  the more i think about it, "                          capitalism is a game of massive musical chairs, everyone knew it 75 years ago, but along came fdr and put in massive safety nets, ie more chairs at each round instead of less and things got out of control and strangely incentivised.  our economy is now based on speculation, ie land prices, that we are starting to see redistribution of wealth via house rich, cash poor infrastructure.  this will place assets in new hands, create some pain.  the more we manipulate it with safety nets, subsidies without real costs retained within the "fair trade" window, the more assets are transferred to those who don't provide services or a product.  a sign of financial weakness, is not accumulating anything, ie capital, cash, assets beyond your business cycle window, ie droughts, market corrections, excess head of cattle, ie the sale yard we all dread as a marketing outlet.  remove one of them like slaughter in horses, and there is a hickup people are not prepared for and there is bag holding frenzies and unmodeled for pain.  yet people still want to come here because we have one thing most places don't have, property rights, though those are fast disappearing.  cash was merely an exchange between two parties if they didn't have something the other wanted.  now cash is a market all unto itself with more clout than the goods and services it greases.  when this happens, like it did in roman times, civiliazations have problems.  get involved locally in your government somehow, go to city council meetings, run for office, talk about politics not at sunday dinner, but talk about, do something about it.

back to the original point of not having vets to respond, it's bigger than just the vet and the large animal person, it's your community, and i'm not being hillary about the whole it takes a village thing, but i am saying communities choose what they want to do, and the best way to start is to develope a revenue infrastructure that is not dependent on matching funds from either the state or federal government or you get restrictions like no child left behind.  i leave this topic with a quote from james madison, who was a notorius self admitted waffler,

"if congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands:  they may appoint teachers in every state, county, and parish, and pay them out of their public treasury: they may take into their own hands the education of children establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union: they may assume the provision for the poor: they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, everything, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of congress."  folks we are there, it's time to take our country back.
 

DL

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CAB said:
  Dl, I agree, but take a look @ how many farmer /ranchers are having to leave their choice of profession, or have an off farm job to keep doing what they love doing. That, it's dirty long hours crap doesn't hold alot of water for most serious ag jobs. Cab

CAB - I didn't say anything about it being dirty long hours - what I am trying to say (poorly apparently) is that there is current;y a severe shortage of food animal vets and it is predicted to get worse not better. People don't want to do it anymore - Most beef farmers have off farm jobs and interestingly the cost of veterinary care for food animal producers is a very very small percentage of the total cost yet it is always what is blamed for high costs, low profits, global warming, the end of mom and pop stores and paris hilton ending up in jail

true story - friend is a vet - father in a different state is a dairy farmer - he had a cow that needed a c-section - could not get a vet; doesn't own a trailer. Two days later someone takes her to the U for a C-section - calf is dead and cow is in bad shape- from a humane standpoint maybe he should have shot the cow. He doesn't have a regular vet - therefore he has no emergency care. That is his choice. Beef is a little different but if I don't preg check your cows why would I want to get up in the middle of the night for a C-section? If you don't provide some gravy work there is really no vet-client relationship. Knabe has a good system - and I bet he has a good relationship with his vet

My mechanic charges $80 per hour, the plumber $75, the accountant $125 to $200, the lawyer (well it is by the minute), the plumber charges a trip fee, the mechanic charges to transport my tractor - it is the cost of doing business. And to those who say gee you get all your vet work for free I reply and you get all your hay for free - it is the cost of doing business...if you don't think you can afford it then don't expect emergency care whenever you want/need it....
;)
 

shorthorns r us

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Apr 9, 2007
Messages
900
(lol)
Is it just me or does anyone else wonder if Knabe and a group of his friends own a compound in Idaho for establishing a new world order?
(lol)
 

renegade

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Jun 30, 2007
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Caldwell, Idaho
How did you find out about that it is suppose to be an in state secrete! I think thats why they are expanding the capital building so you guys could move in....lol  ;D
 

DL

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Jan 29, 2007
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renegade said:
How did you find out about that it is suppose to be an in state secrete! I think thats why they are expanding the capital building so you guys could move in....lol  ;D
I guess the gig is up  (clapping) (clapping)
 

CAB

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Mar 5, 2007
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5,607
Location
Corning,Iowa
  DL, you did say, quote outside and dirty. You do relise that every profession that you mentioned, that the people do get to set their fees. We take what the powers that be decide we're worth each day so someone that may not know what a pork belly is can play the board today. Like Knabe was saying, not very much of what goes on anymore has a thing to do with supply and demand, it's more politics. Look at the money that the fed just threw into the stock market lately to try to bolster up the mess. Think how many poor working class people that could have helped, but no , we have to keep the white collar people happy proping up the false economy. We're not going to agree on much on this subject, but I couldn't leave it alone. I'll refrain from replying on this subject as long as I can. Cab
 

knabe

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Hollister, CA
finally, some credibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  no compound needed.  it's time to take back our government.

a great easy book to read is....................

the politically incorrect guide to american history by thomas e. woods, and no, it's not a conservative or anti liberal perspective. and just a general review of andrew johnson and how he stood up to stanton and the radical republicans, the myth of the robber barons, and constant reminders that the biggest monopoly in the US is the *&%$#@ federal government.

woods has written a few good books that mostly get distributed through conservative outlets which is too bad, because the issues he brings up dont' really fall on either side, which by the way, i detest.  to me, the number one danger to ag is the price speculation factored into land prices for development.  this could be curtailed somewhat by exacting a truer cost from developers on services from the development, but instead, they give them breaks, which only spurs more development and costs are NEVER recovered, spurring more and more and more.  the logical end is a full petri dish with no food.
 

JbarL

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30deg 17' 11.73 N 81deg 35'59.94&q
dragon lady said:
This is always a lively discussion - SKF you are not alone - believe me - and I think it will only get worse - consider you go to vet school and end up with loans up to $100,000 - sometimes more - you have to make a living - small animal is lucrative and you stay inside and don't really get dirty. Large animal can be lucrative but you are outside and dirty. If there is not a sufficient amount of work to make a living chances are there won't be a LA vet - and if the only work is emergency then there is insufficient work to make a living.

If you have a vet an hour away that is willing to care for your cattle keep him busy and happy! 
;D
was just wondering ...considering the nature of the topic( "help fast")  and all the reasons all the profiessions have given...even criticizing the fact that someone would even consider using a board in an emergency situation...seems like somevery knowlegable folks here pass on some pretty good info.....i suppose asking for a fee for advice given on a board would be tacky i quess....but it would mke the school loans go away faster..point being...if  i had trouble and sp was avaliable i would try to contact on line with a number of folks i have meet here for advice.....all the pros seem to administer advice freely here on topic...but what if someone was on line now with a "situation"...would you be willing to get off line (sp) for a bit and take a call????....alot of communication tech out there folks....but looks like the midwife/co-op deal is the best ( acutally only ) deal we have here for us....just like the ai folks and et folks who dont need the  "vet" schooling and loan burden to actually do what vets maybe should be doing , they are avaliable ...with knowlede....maybe be able to help/maybe not ........its not dirty.... not sure about lucrative  ...so we do understand the econimics of it for the professions   ....and i mean nothing more than the way it is for us...and soulds  like maybe a few other folks out there also....having calves is part of the cow business.....most folks in the business no how to birth calves and reconize problems...and most of the time no how to handle different "situations".......our neighbors have been a godsend to us.... great folks and quite cow savy....with them and my ranch help i actually feel pretty good about this feb....but this vet thing seems to be non geographical problem......same type problems with vet avaliableity in the rurals.......everywhere....but dont for get the communication tech that avaliable ....shoot cell phones can send videos back and forth....computers w/ cameras at real time.......struff like that......eleminates  the unsumountable miles between office and the dirty ole location that your expertise is needed.....  usually the 40 mins. to an hour plus to get there is critical time that could eleminate the  fatal part of the situation......just a part of havin cows...but any thing to elminate calf losses benifits any cattle operation or hobby farm...could even help with a home emergency with a prince charles spaniel client( lucrative) on youralls  reg list also.....what do ya think>??  jbarl
 
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