Help on stillborns needed please

[JLR]

We have about 20 Angus and commercial Simmi cows. They are well cared for and vaccinated (Vista or Bovishield Gold) and poured regularly. They have clean reproductive histories. Range from first calf heifers to 9 yrs old. Receive mostly vitaferm minerals and occasionally an alternate brand breeder mineral. We began calving shortly after the first of the year and have yet to have a calf that is not stillborn. 9 calves total from two different AI sires. Of these three sets of twins occurred. Cows are genetically clean. We had one abortion about a year ago. A recip carrying an embryo calf early in gestation. We have had one more abortion in the past month, about 90 days from full gestation. Of the stillborn calves that we have had most have been term or a week to 10 days early. The earliest was 3 1/2  weeks early. The herd has been closed for about 1 1/2 yrs, not having anything new with the exception of some breeding ewes (in an adjacent pasture) brought in since. I have consulted with 5 different vets in and around our area. The local vet posted calves and sent samples from calves and placenta to the university...all tests came back negative. A few of the cows seemed slightly ill for a day or two after calving but quickly bounced back and were back on feed. We treated one cow and it was one that the vet had cleaned for placenta samples to submit. Calves look to be full gestation, even the twins were of expected size and relatively healthy. They are not at all decomposed when arrive. A few looked to have slightly shorter legs than expected and one single calf's front legs looked a bit twisted. No other anomalies inside or out on any of them. We tried a 14 day course of tetracycline crumbles early in the course of this at the vet's recommendation. I have also consulted with the university to see if they have had other occurrences or have additional recommendations. His reply was "it sounds like you have a problem, keep the samples coming" and that was the extent of that The only difference in this year as compared to others is the corn stalk bales that are used for bedding. We did use a few bales from this year's harvest when the snow made it impossible to access the bales from last year. Our corn had been tested and is clean. The bales were also put up as it was freezing and snowing due to the late harvest, so I would assume the cold temps would keep anything new from growing. The cows show no symptoms of deficiency or poor conditioning. Any similar experience or advice is welcomed and appreciated.

 

[DL]

Questions
Where are you?
What do the cows eat?
Do you vaccinate for Lepto generically and Lepto hardjo bovis specifically?
Is there standing water?
Is there exposure to wildlife - ie do cattle eat and drink where deer, elk whatever also eat and drink?
Do you Bang's vaccinate?
Were any shots or other treatments given to close up cows?
Do your cows have nose to nose contact with other cows?
Are there dogs around? Did anyone mention Neospora?
Were new additions or calves from pregnant animals co mingled (say at the fair) tested for BVD PI?
Who did the necropsy? Did you get a copy of the results? What bacteria, viruses etc did they test for?
Sometimes the necropsy won't tell you what the problem is but will tell you what the problem isn't....

sorry you are having trouble

 

[GoWyo]

We had 2 spontaneous abortions 12 hours apart about 60-75 days before full term last year.  Suspected it was from feeding oat hay and the nitrates got a little hot.  On vet recommendation we sent in eyeball fluid from the calves and they were negative for nitrates, so we ruled it out, but never figured it out.  The cows were 9 and 12 years old and had been very productive cows over the years.  Would not have thought about it too much, except for the fact they aborted within 24 hours of each other, so we were puckered up waiting to see if we had an epidemic starting.  These were the only two calving problems last year though.

 

[JLR]

Thank you for your response

Where are you? North central Iowa near the MN border
What do the cows eat? Sweetcorn silage mostly and some rolled wheat
Do you vaccinate for Lepto generically and Lepto hardjo bovis specifically? We've used Bovishield Gold, Vista, or Triangle 9 + Type II BVD routinely over the years and boosted when indicated. Never used a seperate Lepto vaccine, just the combos.
Is there standing water? Everything has been frozen since November, but we had only 7 days in october that it didn't rain and standing water was unavoidable in areas then.
Is there exposure to wildlife - ie do cattle eat and drink where deer, elk whatever also eat and drink? No, deer would be the only possibility but have never noticed them or tracks inside the fence or close by.
Do you Bang's vaccinate? As calves
Were any shots or other treatments given to close up cows? No
Do your cows have nose to nose contact with other cows? No, but share a fence line with our own sheep. They avoid each other to my knowledge.
Are there dogs around? Did anyone mention Neospora? I have Golden Retrievers that are inside dogs and for the most part never go inside the fence. I have never witnessed behavior or symptoms in my adults or puppies. Strays are a possibility but the high tinsel is usually fairly discouraging. No one mentioned Neospora but through my reasearch I read about it and brought it up to the local vet and the university vet.
Were new additions or calves from pregnant animals co mingled (say at the fair) tested for BVD PI? No one new has been brought in or left and returned recently. About 1 1/2 yrs ago we had two donors return home. Possibly we need to test everyone again?
Who did the necropsy? Did you get a copy of the results? What bacteria, viruses etc did they test for? Local vet did the necropsy. Sent samples to ISU in Ames. He never returned call requesting results, but about two weeks later we received report from Ames.
Histo-no lesions on lung, heart, liver, kidney, or placenta
Bacti- Campy-neg
BVD-neg
IBR-neg
Routine culture-NSG

 

[DL]

It won't make you feel any better but up to 2/3rds of abortion cases are never diagnosed. This means that you end up making changes (and praying) based on your best guess or thoughts about what maybe could be going on.

My understanding from your vaccines is that they did not contain lepto - ie the Pfizer vaccines are something like CattleMaster 4 +L5 - the L indicating leptospirosis. Many vaccines did only have the 5 leptos, and did not include Lepto hardjo bovis which came up as a cause of abortion (and other things) not all that long ago. Lepto abortions are hard to diagnose as the organism is very fragile. Lepto is transmitted in the urine of a variety of critters - the thing that makes hardjo bovis different is that it colonizes (live in) the cows kidney, where as the other leptos are "visitors" cause their problem and move on.

Depending on where you live and who your vet is the vaccination recommendations for lepto vary - the vaccine for the L5 is generally thought to not be long lasting - hardjo bovis is good for a year. I have worked with a dairy that vaccinated every 3 months or had lepto abortion problems

I don't know the cause of your problem - but lepto is certainly a consideration and there are ways to decrease the effect on your remaining cows - good luck

http://www.livestocktrail.uiuc.edu/dairynet/paperDisplay.cfm?ContentID=7137

http://www.drovers.com/news_editorial.asp?pgID=677&ed_id=6212

http://www.agweb.com/images/uploaded/files/Fact%20Sheet_Lepto%20hardjo-bovis_2009.pdf

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/pdfs/bch/03230.pdf

http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2009/September/CT2064.php

 

[simtal]

what is the water source these cows consume?  If they drink out of creek, they drink everything that $hits in the creek.  Neospora is carried by coyotes as well.

 

[sue]

We started using a product a few years ago SPIROVAC VL5  along with cattlemaster or Triangle 9.  Spirovac twice as calves and annual booster is what is recommended .  But we booster 2 times and start any new animals coming.
I  have talked to breeder(s) that feel like Lepto isnt a problem any more or they live in some "special" location that they could never have this problem??? My reply was do you really want to find out?? Knowing that this breeder had bulls on test with other breeder's bulls - scared the crap out of me. 
I am sorry to hear about your losses.
DL - thanks for posting all of the articles
I hope everyone reads this post

 

[CAB]

Would there be info gained by ultrasounding the remaining cows to see when the death of the calves is happening. To me it almost seems feed related. I don't know if a lepto would cause them all to be dead. How long of a span of time did these 1st 9 cows calf in? Sorry for your loss & worries. Brent

 

[SWMO]

I would still look at nitrates more closely.  We have a set of first calf heifers that were fed very good bermuda hay that was not tested for nitrates.  Had lots of weird things.  Cleft palates, very weak calves had to be assisted nursing for an entire week after birth and one dead calf.  Upon review of the bermuda it had come off a place that used the waste from a water treatment plant as their fertilizer.  What a wreck.  I still have nightmares about that calving season.

 

[kanshow]

How much of this can be attributed to extreme weather conditions?  Cattle in many locations have been under continuous weather stress since last fall.   

 

[JLR]

Thank you for all of the information. I have skimmed through the provided links and will review them closer.

Its been 4 years since we used the Bovi Shield and I was certain it contained Hardjo, but could be wrong. In recent years we have used this:
VISTA 5 L5 SQ A live vaccine for cattle containing modified-live cultures of bovine rhinotracheitis (IBR) virus; bovine virus diarrhea (BVD) virus (Types 1 and 2); parainfluenza3 virus (PI3) and bovine respiratory syncytial virus (BRSV) and inactivated cultures of Leptospira canicola, L. grippotyphosa, L. hardjo, L. icterohaemorrhagiae, and L. Pomona.

This past year we resorted to Triangle  because of availability on short notice when an opportunity came up to vaccinate on a "rainy" day that we had not anticipated.
TRIANGLE® 9 + TYPE II BVD
Fort Dodge
Bovine Rhinotracheitis-Virus Diarrhea-Parainfluenza-3-Respiratory Syncytial Virus Vaccine
Killed Virus
Leptospira Canicola-Grippotyphosa-Hardjo-Icterohaemorrhagiae-Pomona Bacterin
For vaccination of healthy cattle as an aid in the prevention of disease caused by infectious bovine rhinotracheitis (IBR), bovine viral diarrhea (BVD types I & II), parainfluenza-3 (PI-3), bovine respiratory syncytial (BRSV) viruses and Leptospira pomona, L. hardjo, L. grippotyphosa, L. canicola and L. icterohaemorrhagiae.

I have read over the testing procedure and I think  we will go ahead and test as we really don't have anything to lose
The cows drink from automatic waterers but we are pursuing testing our water as well. I will also look further into testing all feed sources.
Thank you to all for your suggestions.

 

[DL]

FWI the lepto hardjo  in the L-5 IS NOT THE SAME AS Lepto hardjo bovis (yeah I know it doesn't make any sense )
inactivated cultures of Leptospira canicola, L. grippotyphosa, L. hardjo, L. icterohaemorrhagiae, and L. Pomona.

 

[Top Knot]

2 years ago I lost 5 of the first 10 calves born. Abortion, 2 born dead, 2 born weak and soon died. I sent in 2 calves and report on one indicated presence of mold. I stopped putting out cornstalk bales and didn't lose another calf. You said you tested the corn - what about the stover? I know there was lots of mold in the region due to the wet October. I would bet more on the side of feed contamination than disease as you seem to have those bases covered. Good luck. I hope things turn around quickly.

 

[simtal]

I have seen lots of cornstalks loaded with zearealone and vomitoxin

 

[CAB]

I have seen lots of cornstalks loaded with zearealone and vomitoxin

@ levels high enough to cause these kind of #s?

I was wondering if you are feeding any of the by-products from the ethonal industry such as corn syrup, DDGs, or wet gluten. If the calves were dying much B4 due date the cows would have to abort them. Would it help possibly to induce a couple if you have hard due dates to see if you could get a couple of live births?

 

[CAB]

  Hoping that things are getting better for you. Have you figured out what is going on yet? Brent

 

[PowersCattle]

We have been feeding hay and cornstalks and distillers grain (ethanol by product) this year.  They are exposed to free choice mineral and protein lick block.  As a whole their condition is worst than I can remember in the past.  I live in NW Ohio and yes we have vomitoxin mold in our corn.  We were told that the cornstalks would not have a effect on cows, and that the distillers grain was clean.  We just had a calf still born 30 days early that looked like it should of lived.  I am alternationg a hay bale then cornstalk bale and 4.5 pounds of distiller per head per day.  this cow that just calved early looks horrible skinny and sick.  I am having a vet come a check her our, but this chat has got me scared!  Can anybody give me a vaccination shedule what they do on their cows through the year?  Also any idea on what I should do now?

 

[PowersCattle]

How can we test our hay?

 

[hamburgman]

You could be fighting sulfide poisoning, I would check your ration with a nutrition expert, distillers could be your abortion problem

 

[CAB]

Powerscattle, I think that I would rather put a bale of each out @ a time or feed all of one type first then the next. The reason that I would do one or the other is so that your cattle can get adjusted to the feed and not have to constantly change back & forth. The bugs in the rumen never get a chance to adapt to a constant feed source the way that you are alternating feedstuffs.I also agree with Hamburgerman in having a nutritionist look & balance your ration, ie. you may need a balancer in your ration for the DDGs.