how much do unborn calves gain?

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red

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Question- i think I know the answer but wanted to make sure. How much do unborn calves gain per day in the womb? I'm talking about those that are going past their due date.

Red  :)))
 

Bawndoh

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This is not a good answer, but it might help.  Calves grow the first half of their body weight in the womb in the first 7 months.  The last 2 months they grow the other half.  Hence why you really notise them get gutty, and why good nutrition is pushed so hard in the last 2 months of gestation.
 

Cowboy

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Hey RED --- that is REAL close to what you would get from about due date onward -- especially on the larger breed types. 2 pounds per day past due date, about 1.5 the last 2 weeks or so is average.

I would like to further the comment from Bawndoh -- I caution EVERY one about feeding too hard the last 45 days of gestation. I have always felt we need to get these cows in the perfect condition scores by the end of the second trimester, then HOLD them there. Pushing your cows at the end to make up for lost time will do one thing for the most part -- she is going to cram it right into that little baby -- then -- he no longer is a LITTLE baby -- but more like Juli said about the Heat Waves --- M O N G O hehehe!

Just be cautious the last month especially -- take it easy and especially NO grain. The clubby industry has hada notorious calving issue any way -- so why add to it?? We simply maintain the cows in body score 6 the last 90 days -- it works very well, but even then we can still get a big one -- we already have.

Hope every one is doing great this spring -- we have lost one -- a backwards hfr calf weighed 110 -- this backwards deal was not the result of environment so much as it just did not have enough room to turn in there -- she was form a Heat Wave-Foreplay 2nd calf hfr, so the birth weight is still haunting us there I am sure from daddy! All in all we have some nice calves -- one for sure will be real good!

Good luck to all --

Terry
(thumbsup)
 

red

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thanks so much Terry! I bred my tank of a Foreplay to joe this morning. Juli & I decided if it's a heifer we're going to name her FloJo!

red
 

Hoof Hearted

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I dissagree about them gaining 2-3 lbs per day. It is hard enough to get a 800lbs animal to gain that a day and that is a whole lot less of % of body weight. I've had my vet preg check cows at 90 days and tell me then that a calf is at the same gestation as others we are checking and the calf is 1/2 again bigger than the others at that stage, and at calving those calves are definately the biggest ones. We have all had cows bred on the same day and calve on the same day and one werghs 70 lbs and the other weighs 100lbs. If a calf is going to be a big one they are not going to go from 70lbs to 100lbs in the last 10 days. As a result of this I am very anti inducing cows. I used to do it a lot and the calves that had the genetically potential to be big  were still big and the ones that were supposed to be smaller were small, and I found I had to assist a higher % of cows that were induced. For the last 10+ years I just let them calves when they want to and have had a lot less problems and the cows seem to breed back easier as well. If you want ot check this theory go palpate your cows at 7 or 8 months bred. I'll bet money you will know which ones will have big calves in a couple months. Just what I have found through experience, not scientifically proven.
 

Cowboy

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Hoof Hearted -- no offense taken here -- but you may want to re-readf the entire thread. Possibly you may have misunderstood the original intent. The COW does not gain 2 pounds per day when over due -- it is the calf inside of her.

The cow is actually losing weight for her own body to grow that calf, he is taking what he wants and needs from her -- all we are saying is that if you have to push the cow to catch up late in pregnancy, you are infact feeding the calf thru her way too much. Believe me, after over 30 years -- and many on here have more than that -- I have seen the wrecks from those places that just feel you can starve a profit into your cows, then push them to have enough energy to calve. It doesn't work on paper -- and for darn sure not in the pens!

Sure -- by palpation I have noticed bigger calves at mid-term than others the same time fraome. Doesn't matter -- what we are talking about here is the fact that once they reach LATE term, they are going to gain fast to maturity and parturation. An overdue cow will be pumping 2 pounds a day into that calf -- big or small -- that is just the way it works. So the bottom line is here -- all we meant was -- no matter what the genetics are -- you are getting a 2 pounds increase in calf weight when she goes over her due date. Some slightly less, some LOTS more -- depending on genetics.

Hope that clarifies my intent above!

Have a great year calving -- Terry
 

Hoof Hearted

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Terry, I posted my post before I read yours, so I wasn't rebutting what you said. I wasn't saying anything about the the cow gaining or loosing weight, I agree with you there that you don't want to feed them hard fopr the last trimester, for me it has a lot more to with getting the cow too fat not so much that it increased the birth weight all that much (fat does not stretch). My point was about the calf gaining 2-3 lbs per day late in gestation, I don't agree with that. Maybe 1 lbs at the most. My point about the weight was if it is difficult to get an 800lbs steer on full feed to gain3 lbs per day or roughly 0.375% of their body weight how can we think an 80lbs calf can gain ten fold that in terms of body weight 3.75% per day. I don't believe that a 100lbs calf that is 10 days late only weighed 70 or 80lbs on it's due date. Just my humble opinion. Thats a tough one to prove one way or another, (pretty hard to take one out, weigh it and put it back in for 10 days or so he he). and with the amount of fluid we are dealing with along with gut fill, it would be very hard to weigh the cow regularly and know what was calf weight verses the other factors. I guess we can agree to disagree on the unborn average daily gain ( that might be a new angus EPD UADG)
 

Jill

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I have to disagree on that one, it isn't any different than a human baby that gains a pound a day at the end of pregnancy, that's just how God made it to work.
 

Cowboy

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I as well was not trying to be testy Hoof Hearted, not at all. Here is my analogy of the calf deal -- it may make more sense this way.

First off, when we are trying to feed a FAT steer, we are asking him to put condition on an already MATURE frame. Keep that point in mind, the steer is already at 90% or more of his max frame and we are asking for fat deposits, not frame or bone growth.

That little baby in there is fusing bone, making tissues, growing lungs -- everything that does not matter in a fat steer. Bone mass and internal organs take a long time to grow, and they do more of it at the end of gestation than they do early -- early on they are just sending cells to this organ or that -- in fact when we transfer an embryo -- you could take ONE cell out of that embryo at that stage and make a completely new one from that cell -- they have not differentiated as yet -- so every one has the complete genetic package in tact. Later on they fuse into their respective organs, bone, skin etc.

That calf in there is growing exponentialy late in term, to get ready for birth, and even early on in life, a good cow with a good genetics calf will yield an ADG of about 3 pounds per day -- at least early on -- say the first 4 months.

Putting everything in perspective -- it makes sense that nature has programmed for rapid growth right before birth to make sure it has as much chance as possible to live. Sure -- there would be a wide range of actual calf gain from one package to the next, but the bottom line is -- the closer to term the calf is the faster it grows -- more cells to divide into more cells to divide into more cells to divide - etc etc.

Again, that fat steer is making FAT, not body mass for the most part -- although there is some muscle growth -- most of the bone mass and internal organs are mature and will not contribute to the end product.

Any way - I think we all get the point -- just don't push your cows the last 35 days -- if they are thin then -- it is TOOOOO late!

Take care all -- Terry


 

red

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I just know when I had a heifer go 10 days past due date she had a 136 pound calf! Never again for me.

Red
 
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