showcattlegal
Well-known member
How do you know when you go to a sale if the heifers pelvic size is to small?
Lacey
Lacey
How to detirmine the pelvic size
- Thread starter showcattlegal
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red
Well-known member
showcattlegal said:
also to add to this thread, when you have a first calf heifer, that loses her calf because it was too hard a pull, should you cut your loses & sell her?
What are some of the things that a young person (or anyone reall) needs to look at when buying a heifer that they want to be a good brood cow?
Thanks, showcattleal had a rough day yesterday. Must be the jinx that's going around.
DL, also don't have (cow) over this, but her vet didn't recommend a necropsy because" it died because of a hard pull". Comments?
Red
Lacey - sorry things didn't work out with your calf - is your heifer up and OK?
Pelvic area - the only real way you know is if you measure it - there is actually an instrument called a pelvimeter that you use to measure pelvic area - (while inside the cow like doing a rectal) - you measure the height and the width and using height x width determine the area and then check it with a chart.
So basically at a show you don't have a clue.
Re your heifer or any heifer that has to have a calf pulled - upward of 10% of heifers need help with their first calf because the calf is big compared to the pelvic area - that is a good sized calf for a heifer - not sure how many heifers could have a calf that size without assistance. I had a heifer this year calve out unassisted a 98 pound heifer calf from a "calving ease bull" -12 days early - she must have a pelvic area the size of South Dakota because most heifers can't do this.
Re Reds question - Unless I have a documented small pelvic area (ie by pelvimeter) or an abnormal pelvis after a heifer loses a calf because of size - I don't cull them - if ishe has genetics I like and is an animal I like I figure I made the wrong bull choice and she gets a second chance.
When looking for brood cows I look at the mother.
Re necropsy - well what can I say - saying a clalf died of a hard pull is like saying that Tim Horton died of a car accident. While her death is related to her size and the subsequent dystocia (ie mismatch between the size of the calf and the size of the exit AKA difficult calving) there are often other things going on, esp in calves born dead and I always necropsy them. Guess Ineed to get my act together and write about that!
Lacey I am sorry you had such a rotten day - believe me I know exactly how you feel, DL
Pelvic area - the only real way you know is if you measure it - there is actually an instrument called a pelvimeter that you use to measure pelvic area - (while inside the cow like doing a rectal) - you measure the height and the width and using height x width determine the area and then check it with a chart.
So basically at a show you don't have a clue.
Re your heifer or any heifer that has to have a calf pulled - upward of 10% of heifers need help with their first calf because the calf is big compared to the pelvic area - that is a good sized calf for a heifer - not sure how many heifers could have a calf that size without assistance. I had a heifer this year calve out unassisted a 98 pound heifer calf from a "calving ease bull" -12 days early - she must have a pelvic area the size of South Dakota because most heifers can't do this.
Re Reds question - Unless I have a documented small pelvic area (ie by pelvimeter) or an abnormal pelvis after a heifer loses a calf because of size - I don't cull them - if ishe has genetics I like and is an animal I like I figure I made the wrong bull choice and she gets a second chance.
When looking for brood cows I look at the mother.
Re necropsy - well what can I say - saying a clalf died of a hard pull is like saying that Tim Horton died of a car accident. While her death is related to her size and the subsequent dystocia (ie mismatch between the size of the calf and the size of the exit AKA difficult calving) there are often other things going on, esp in calves born dead and I always necropsy them. Guess Ineed to get my act together and write about that!
Lacey I am sorry you had such a rotten day - believe me I know exactly how you feel, DL
red
Well-known member
Thanks so much DL, I know Lacey is really feeling bad today. I don't think her vet's attitude helped her much. Hang in there girl, there are up's & down's everyday. You just have to take the down's & learn from them.
Red
Red
showcattlegal
Well-known member
Thanks guys. The cow is up and eat this morning she don't look very good though. I have learned from this. The bad thing is i still have 3 more Ali's coming :-\. Where can I buy one of those thing to check. I have 8 heifers that will be first calf heifers next year. Thanks for the help
Lacey
Lacey
cowz
Well-known member
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showcattlegal said:
What is the breeding on your group of heifers? Or are they commercials?
showcattlegal
Well-known member
well it ended up where i kept one of a each bull i used. The Laredo heifer on profile is one, a bleeding purple x angus, maine break x angus, MGM Grand he's a black dice son x simmy, Mossy oak x habenaro, WMW x Payoff, and a Lady killer x hereford i bought.
red
Well-known member
I've had heavy calves w/ Black Dice bloodlines. Just something to keep in mind. I'm not sure on Mossy Oaks, I think they tend to be a little larger too.
Red
Red
If you have exact breeding dates (ie know they are AI bred) you might consider inducing them early (a week or so) - if you figure a calf can gain 2 lbs/day in utero - that would be 14 lbs. Some gain up to 3 lbs/d and that would be 21 lbs. I am reluctant to let heifers go over.
If you are unhappy with your vet is there another one around that you could develop a relationship with?
It would be good if you caould find someone how to teach you how to pelvic measure or have a vet do it (or have them teach you) - it isn't hard but it is a little tricky.
Re your coming Ali calves - I think this one was on the far right side of the bell shaped curve - meaning somebody has to be way too big and somebody has to be way too little but most are in the middle. Ali has done pretty well with heifers - keep the faith! DL
If you are unhappy with your vet is there another one around that you could develop a relationship with?
It would be good if you caould find someone how to teach you how to pelvic measure or have a vet do it (or have them teach you) - it isn't hard but it is a little tricky.
Re your coming Ali calves - I think this one was on the far right side of the bell shaped curve - meaning somebody has to be way too big and somebody has to be way too little but most are in the middle. Ali has done pretty well with heifers - keep the faith! DL
showcattlegal
Well-known member
Those heifers are the ones I want to breed this year. The only problem with the vets are there the only ones in town, there is others I use but there 2 hours away so it don't help on emergencies. I only have one more first calve heifer calving this year. Thanks for the help
Lacey
Lacey
garybob
Well-known member
I have argued with breders on other discussion forums over this topic. I lost my first show heifer from dystocia. I wish my breed association would expand our epd's for pelvic area and gestation length, or pressure breeders to be honest about birthweights and submit them. Given that most shorthorns are in small herds with the showring as the main focus, and are baby-sat like family members (not livestock), there shouldn't be any reason these people can't record a BW. Must have something to hide. Lacey, don't give up. Learn from this experience. Always be more honest than the average breeder. You don't want to have a customer come back to you with a complaint, or a young person with a broken heart. I'd like to take your vet snipe -hunting down in Newton County.
aj
Well-known member
I would think vets would be persnickity of show cattle pulls. I don't know that 90% of the club calf deal are pulls. They are shut up in barns and watched with intensive care. Its pulling a square object through a round hole. I think that there is "to much pulling going on out there.".
