Inducing cow

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HFSC

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I have a cow bred to Heatwave that is two days past due and I know she is AI'd, wanting to induce her but not sure what drugs to use and how much. Any help would be appreciated.
 

red

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After I had a 136 pound calf from a heifer that was 10 days late we induce if they are over 2 days. I'm not going to suggest any drugs since I'm not a vet.

Red
 

fluffer

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Thats a tough one.  Our vet actually helped up induce some recips a few years ago after he determined they didn't have a big enough pelvic area to deliver the calves "full term". 
I think it is a mix of lute and dex, but I am not sure, don't know the dose's needed.  I always consult with a vet first.  You need to make sure the calf is in the right position too.  Patients may be your safest bet  :-\

Good Luck
Fluffer
 

justintime

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I think inducing is an option if you are not producing breeding stock. I know it is done routinely, but I often wonder how this distorts BWs of bull calves or distorts their gestation length. By this I mean you could buy a bull that resulted from an induced birth, which had a reasonable BW and find that he sires monsters that all go over term.
Several years ago, I helped calve cows at a leading Simmental operation and we tried to only calve on Tuesdays and Thursdays. They induced their cows so that this was possible and they had a vertrinarian there full time on those days. It actually was possible to calves on those days, but we did have many more assists at birth and over 75% had retained placentas. We also thought that the calves were not as vigorous as if they had gone full term. They also found that the cows that were induced bred back later than the cows that were not induced. They decided to not induce after that. I am not saying that inducing is not the best solution in your situation and with your cows, but talk to your vet and see what they suggest.
 

red

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I argree on a higher chance of retained placentas. You especially see that in dairy herds.

Red
 

Jill

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Check with your vet.  Our vet does not ever suggest inducing.  You might try having an exam to see how big the calf is and go from there.
 

j3cattleco

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First off, I'm not a vet,  However Have worked with one closely and some dairies.  We do induce cows when concern is for large calves and to help some cows that get hurt or have lameness issues with in a week of their due date.  the first thing is to try and contact your vet if you have one.  In our area, the vets tell people to call us with cattle questions because their aren't any large animal vets around so we have to do it ourselves.  Then if you don't have any other options I would be willing to e-mail you the way to induce the cow.  the biggest danger with inducing cows isn't with unuusal presentation of the calf as it is with milk let down.  Ive seen too many people induce cows that didn't have any milk let down to have trouble with the cow milking right and getting the calf started off right.  I did a quite extensive study in college when I interned with a hog farm and we collected data on teh increaesed number of sows that needed treated for retained placentas in those that were induced and basically found no difference when the proper procedures were followed for inducing.
 

oakbar

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I agree with J3CattleCo.  Because of my travel schedule we induce a few cows/heifers each year.  I'd rather be here when the calf is born than be a thousand miles away if we have trouble. 

I have not had a large problem with retained placentas.  We usually calve out around 15 cows each year and we'll have one or so each year but I don't think that would be unusual even without inducing.  I also agree the bigger problem might be milk letdown--especially with heifers.  Again, we don't usually induce until the pregnancy has gone 278-280 days so this isn't usually too much of a problem.

Now, before everyone starts giving me heck about inducing.  I'm not a vet and I don't recommend it!!  I'd much rather let the cow calve out naturally.  But if I know I'm going to be gone for a few days and something is around 280 days or more  I may induce them just to make sure we have the calf on the ground before I leave town.  We may also use it on heifers when we don't want them to go to far over their due date.

One thing is extremely important---Make sure you know exactly when the cow was bred!!!  If you assume they are bred AI and the clean up bull actually bred them or if you aren't sure-- just don't induce.  This option should be used very selectively and only after your options are well thought out.  Talk it over with your vet and understand that naturally born calves are always the preferable option unless there is an over riding concern.
 

CAB

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Justintime is correct with his facts about the higher retained placentas therefore causing the slower rebreed rates. It also makes sense to induce, if like Oakbar, you are going to be away and don't want to take the chance of having a difficult birth while you are away. I have induced B4, but only if a cow is over due or going downhill condition wise. The shots that I would use would require a vets prescription, but here is what I would shoot, 5mls of lute along with 25 mls of dexamethazone. That is for a birth very close to full term.
 

fluffer

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I think it should be mentioned, that Dex is also used if you want to abort a pregnancy.  So don't go shooting up your cow with Dex thinking that if she isn't ready she won't calve, cause she will!  It may not be good either!  We have used dex to induce and we have also used it in weanling heifers that could be bred, and we are worried that Lute won't abort them.

Fluffer
 

DL

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Good post oakbar - if you have an exact date inducing a cow can be a useful management tool.

If you don't have exact conception date inducing a cow can be a disaster.

The stimulus for labor in the cow is the release by the fetus of cortisol (aka fetal cortisol) - this is a steroid hormone similar to dexamethasone, hence the reason to use dexamethasone. The addition of lutalyse will lyse the CL and seems to be a useful addition when inducing. Do not use lutalyse alone -

Retained placenta - this data is primarily from dairys where we all know those cows are different from beef cows. Induced beef cattle with adequate vitamins and minerals and without dystocia do not really seem to have greater numbers of RPs than those that were not induced (in my experience, and from discussions with other beef practitioners)
 

CAB

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DL, do you think that you can correlate swine induced birth to beef? In my experience, I don't think that you can. RTed placentas in swine would not be near as common as in beef, the codaleadens are not attached as tightly as in the cows. I don't have any data in front of me, but in my experience with inducing what few cows that I have over the years, & cows that seem to calf short of full term,or be induced, seem to have more RTed placentas. I think that a person could help themselves a bunch by waiting 72 hours then cleaning the cow out as best possible, then treat the uterus with an antibiotic.
 

oakbar

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DL--what do you think about using Dexamethasone by itself?  I talked with a very good bovine practitioner who told me that using 10 ccs (20 units)of Dex. by itself is a "gentler" way of inducing than using 25ccs of Dex. and 5cc of Lutalyse.  This  method might take a little longer but  he said he thought that if the cow wasn't quite full term that the additional time would probably allow the lining of the lungs etc. to fully form before birth.  I've actually used this before and I guess, my limited experience, it seemed to work pretty good but I'm interested in other opinions!!  Haven't there been some recent studies in beef cattle showing that Lutalyse really doesn't add significantly to the parturition??
 

DL

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oakbar - well I don't know about "gentler parturition" - seems like calving per se is not without pain - we just had an interesting discussion on the bovine practitioner list about do calves feel pain during labor and the science says that during contractions there is decreased blood to the brain, increased carbon dioxide and decreased oxygen which results in an increase in a chemical that slows electrical transmission in the brain (adenosine) so that actually calves have a flat EEG during labor - once they take a breath, the oxygen goes up and the adenosine goes down and the nerves function. I thought that was pretty cool, but of course unrelated to your question.

I think it is a bit like cake recipes - different people use different approaches for different reasons. I have used both dexamethasone alone and with lutalyse and I am not sure I see a difference - most of the calves arrive 36 hours (+/-) after the shots. I'll see what I can find out about recent studies...

CAB - can't say I know much about pigs!  I think the topic of treating RPs is sort of like another cake recipe! Everybody has their favorite approach - used to be that there was lots of cleaning out and intrauterine drugs - either boluses or infusion - there isn't really any evidence (in dairy) that this does much - but people and vets keep doing it - hasn't been really studied much in beef, but since beef cattle generally have a much better immune system than the Holstein RPs are not such a big problem in beef. In fact, the general recommendation (even though they are stinky and icky) is to basically ignore them UNLESS the cow shows evidence of being sick - the bacteria that cause the stink also are involved in detaching the placenta etc it is just basically a local thing that will generally go away. Human nature makes it hard not to do something though. Gentle traction on the hanging placenta (not pulling) is generally considered OK and more aesthetic!
 

j3cattleco

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CAB,  I'm not sure that you can correlate retains in cattle and sows, however, the retains in swine is way higher than in cattle.  In the study I did I looked at 2612 farrowing sows and saw almost 27% treated for retained placenta.  I have never had more than one cow that I was scared of retains in cattle a year lately.


 
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