Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect.

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aj

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Is there a breed that doesn't have a genetic defect?I can think of breeds that do have defects. Angus,Red Angus,Shorthorn,Simmental, Limousin sp, holstein on and on.I know the shorthorn and maines have been hammered hard on this site. Do other breeds deserve scrutiny also and how deep is say marble bone, rat tail, mule foot, th and pha. I expect th to show up in limi's,gelbvievh and other breeds because of funny stuff with papers. I would think that there would be cattle out there with dwarfism in there makeup from the dwarfism of the Herfords way back when.I'm sure th will make its way to the commercial cowherds eventually also.I think that Shorthorn people and Maine people have a good concept of how the defect deal works. I'm not sure people of other breeds are aware of how the genetic defect deal can play out. From that standpoint at least the club calf people have a grasp of their situation.
 

justintime

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The Angus breed is dealing with a dwarfism breed right now.  Defects are a normal occurrence in any population. A prominent Angus breeder recently told me that if the Angus breed were to eradicate the defect lines in the breed, it would have to eliminate a couple of the most popular bllodlines in the breed. It is interesting to watch how various breeds deal with defects. Angus, Hereford, Charolais and Simmental and probably some others have had defect issues for many years, yet they are seldom heard of. I guess it is because of the size of these breeds, and because of this it is not as big an issue.
 

DL

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aj - I knew from the title of the post it was yours!  Does your email work? Should I send you the article?

Mutations are everywhere (good t-shirt logo). As JIT says the Angus are "dealing with" the long nosed dwarf, but they also have fawn calf and a type of arthrogoposis on the horizon. Red Angus marble bone, which has also been seen in Angus, Holstein, and Simmental. Of course we have TH and PHA - in a variety of breeds with a variety of mutations.  Dwarfism of various types  ( the Angus, Brown Swiss, Danish Red, Dexter, Hereford, Holstein, Japanese Brown Cattle, and Shorthorns) has been reported in most mammals.  Brachyspina syndrome  and complex vertebral malformation (Holstein), idiopathic epilepsy and inherited congenital myoclonus (Herefords), mulefoot (aka syndactly  Holsteins), monkey mouth  and the list could go on and on.

I think JIT is spot on - it is interesting to see how the various breeds and breeders deal with defects - there are only 7 "new"  long-nosed dwarfs carriers related to the 7D7 bull listed on the AAA website - and yet the history of the long nosed dwarf goes way back. They want us to believe that this is  a point mutation without testing (or releasing results of tests) of sire and dam??

Increased use of AI and ET lead to rapid genetic improvements as well as proliferation of defects. Defects that cause calves to be born deformed or that are lethal at term are more likely to be identified than those causing abortion. Some like the long nosed dwarf may be thought of as small but "normal" until you get a cluster. Eyes in the sand have a hard time seeing defects. While other causes need to be ruled out (ie BVDV especially but also some toxins) this is often a convenient way to ignore the potential genetic implications.  Power, money, size of the breed, politics  all play a roll in how defects are handled.
 

harley

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I'm curious as to what genetic defects are associated with charolais cattle.  Been involved with charolais for 30 years and in thinking back, don't ever remember anything that would be classified as a genetic defect.  Not saying there aren't any, just must not have been in the bloodlines we've used.  The only thing I've seen is some rat tail calves out of charolais cross genetics, never seen one out of purebreds.  Have I just been lucky?
 

knabe

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charolais

Junctional epidermolysis bullosa
some kind of sperm defect
arthrogryposis-cleft palate (chromosome translocation)
Ocular coloboma
Alopecia Anemia
double muscling

probably others
 

garybob

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Will there ever be an atricle in any major industry publication ( Drovers, BEEF, etc) announcing these defects , found in any of the 6 most-popular breeds, to the Cow-calf Industry?

Nope!

GB
 

fluffer

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Well, I have been breeding Gelbviehs for about 12 years and I don't know of a genetic defect they carry.  Some of you may consider the Gelbvieh to be a defect all its own  ;)


Fluffer
 

itk

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Not all defects are bad. The red gene in angus is a defect yet it gave us a whole new breed. Also the polled gene is defect yet it has helped out numerous breeds. 
 

shortyjock89

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itk said:
Not all defects are bad. The red gene in angus is a defect yet it gave us a whole new breed. Also the polled gene is defect yet it has helped out numerous breeds. 

I thought that too, but I've decided that those are beneficial mutations. I figure if it's a good mutation, it's evolution; if it's bad, it's a defect.  I'm perfectly content to believe that, but I'm probably wrong.
 

TJ

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justintime said:
The Angus breed is dealing with a dwarfism breed right now.  Defects are a normal occurrence in any population. A prominent Angus breeder recently told me that if the Angus breed were to eradicate the defect lines in the breed, it would have to eliminate a couple of the most popular bllodlines in the breed. It is interesting to watch how various breeds deal with defects. Angus, Hereford, Charolais and Simmental and probably some others have had defect issues for many years, yet they are seldom heard of. I guess it is because of the size of these breeds, and because of this it is not as big an issue.

It's pretty interesting that Angus have a dwarfism gene, but the Lowline Angus do not have that gene.   Don't know how the Australians were fortunate enough to get defect free lines, but they were. 
 

knabe

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TJ said:
justintime said:
The Angus breed is dealing with a dwarfism breed right now.  Defects are a normal occurrence in any population. A prominent Angus breeder recently told me that if the Angus breed were to eradicate the defect lines in the breed, it would have to eliminate a couple of the most popular bllodlines in the breed. It is interesting to watch how various breeds deal with defects. Angus, Hereford, Charolais and Simmental and probably some others have had defect issues for many years, yet they are seldom heard of. I guess it is because of the size of these breeds, and because of this it is not as big an issue.

It's pretty interesting that Angus have a dwarfism gene, but the Lowline Angus do not have that gene.    Don't know how the Australians were fortunate enough to get defect free lines, but they were. 

linebreeding and sire testing in the beginning, and essentially closed herd status afterward?
 

TJ

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knabe said:
TJ said:
justintime said:
The Angus breed is dealing with a dwarfism breed right now.  Defects are a normal occurrence in any population. A prominent Angus breeder recently told me that if the Angus breed were to eradicate the defect lines in the breed, it would have to eliminate a couple of the most popular bllodlines in the breed. It is interesting to watch how various breeds deal with defects. Angus, Hereford, Charolais and Simmental and probably some others have had defect issues for many years, yet they are seldom heard of. I guess it is because of the size of these breeds, and because of this it is not as big an issue.

It's pretty interesting that Angus have a dwarfism gene, but the Lowline Angus do not have that gene.    Don't know how the Australians were fortunate enough to get defect free lines, but they were. 

linebreeding and sire testing in the beginning, and essentially closed herd status afterward?

I think that you are correct Knabe... I just typed before I really thought about it.  Yes, they did all those things & if something showed up, I'm sure they culled those animals.  The research center did cull animals pretty hard, especially in the beginning.

IMHO, more breeds should use linebreeding, then culling & then close the herds.  That would eleminate all the bad defects & any mutations that are considered desirable could be retained. 

Now, I am not saying that Lowlines don't have any defects, just none that I am aware of.  But they do not carry the dwarfism gene that is common in Angus cattle & I'm sure that all of the other bad defects were probably bred out by linebreeding & then closing the herd. 
 

bcosu

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isn't the angus breed one of the largest breeds? i have heard that they have more registration applications than most other breeds do. if they are as large as i think they are, then proportionately they shouldn't be too bad off if they only have one genetic defect. ;)
 

dori36

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From TJ:

<<Now, I am not saying that Lowlines don't have any defects, just none that I am aware of.  But they do not carry the dwarfism gene that is common in Angus cattle & I'm sure that all of the other bad defects were probably bred out by linebreeding & then closing the herd.>>

From what I've read, Trangie over time culled rigidly any cattle that displayed or produced dwarfism.  One caveat, in general, is that we can only claim "clean" status on our fullbloods.  With all the various other breeds used to produce percentage Lowlines, we're surely going to see some of the genetic anomalies cropping up eventually in the percentage cattle. 

There was a push not long ago to allow Lowlines that had been bred up past 15/16 to be registered as fullbloods.  I was and still am squarely NOT in favor of it just because of those little not-so-desirable genes that could be lurking and just waiting to be expressed as the cattle are closely bred.  And, let's face it, all Lowlines are "closely bred" as our genetic base, even in "outcross" programs, just isn't real large. 
 

fluffer

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Im not trying to hijack this discussion!  ;D

I read and article yesterday that said that "mini" cattle could be the future of our industry.  #1 for kids as projects, these cattle would requre less feed there for being less expensive for the kids.  #2 for our industry, these cattle will produce more meat in relationship to their size and feed intake when compaired to larger cattle.  That makes them more economical and profitable for the feeder.  My question, however, is do packers discount these cattle for being smaller?

Fluffer
 

knabe

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cbcfarms said:
isn't the angus breed one of the largest breeds? i have heard that they have more registration applications than most other breeds do. if they are as large as i think they are, then proportionately they shouldn't be too bad off if they only have one genetic defect. ;)

um, angus have more than one defect.  there is at least two types of dwarfism.  since they are a "larger" breed, they have a disproportionately larger chance of passing on defects. large is as large does.

i sure wish i started with fullbloods, in spite of at least 6 or 7 defects.
 

DL

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cbcfarms said:
isn't the angus breed one of the largest breeds? i have heard that they have more registration applications than most other breeds do. if they are as large as i think they are, then proportionately they shouldn't be too bad off if they only have one genetic defect. ;)

Yes the Angus have the most registrations and are the largest breed in the US, but they have more than one genetic defect - that depending on your point of view may or may not have been handled in a rational manner. Long nosed dwarf, snorter dwarf, fawn calf syndrome, arthrogoposis, marble bone, and others too obscure or numerous to mention.

IMO a mutation per se is not necessarily a defect - red and polled do not increase morbidity or mortality, are not associated with lethality - you may not like red, but it is not a defect and actually could be considered advantageous in warm climates (so would that make black a defect??? ;)
 

simtal

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fluffer said:
Im not trying to hijack this discussion!  ;D

I read and article yesterday that said that "mini" cattle could be the future of our industry.  #1 for kids as projects, these cattle would requre less feed there for being less expensive for the kids.  #2 for our industry, these cattle will produce more meat in relationship to their size and feed intake when compaired to larger cattle.  That makes them more economical and profitable for the feeder.  My question, however, is do packers discount these cattle for being smaller?

Fluffer

require less feed? absolutely, more economical? No way jose.
yeah they get discounted, they don't weigh up as much other cattle, nor gain as well or grow as efficiently, mainly due to composition.  If you sell on carcass weight your at a disadvantage, plus your gonna get killed on dressing perecent.  It maybe easier with a big choice-select spread, but when yield counts (lower cattle prices and tighter spread) its different. Granted, there is an ever increasing trend for smaller high quality beef supplies but, you don't see any of these big yards feeding these types.  However that doesn't mean that the cow sector couldn't benefit from some these genetics.  just my two cents.

 

Rocky Hill Simmental

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I've seen a dwarf angus heifer at the sale barn before. They ran it through with the bucket calves but you could tell it wasn't a newborn calf. When my dad was young, his neighbor raised registered angus cattle and they had a couple of dwarf calves each year.

My high school ag teacher used to have a dwarf hereford cow but someone shot her during deer season one year. She said that she raised a calf every year.
 

fluffer

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simtal said:
fluffer said:
Im not trying to hijack this discussion!  ;D

I read and article yesterday that said that "mini" cattle could be the future of our industry.  #1 for kids as projects, these cattle would requre less feed there for being less expensive for the kids.  #2 for our industry, these cattle will produce more meat in relationship to their size and feed intake when compaired to larger cattle.  That makes them more economical and profitable for the feeder.  My question, however, is do packers discount these cattle for being smaller?

Fluffer

require less feed? absolutely, more economical? No way jose.
yeah they get discounted, they don't weigh up as much other cattle, nor gain as well or grow as efficiently, mainly due to composition.  If you sell on carcass weight your at a disadvantage, plus your gonna get killed on dressing perecent.  It maybe easier with a big choice-select spread, but when yield counts (lower cattle prices and tighter spread) its different. Granted, there is an ever increasing trend for smaller high quality beef supplies but, you don't see any of these big yards feeding these types.  However that doesn't mean that the cow sector couldn't benefit from some these genetics.  just my two cents.

Here is the web site for that article.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/business/story/123369.html

Fluffer

 
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