Is there a way to get carcass and cows?

[Aussie]

Mill Iron A raised a good question in another thread. It poses the question what value do you put on carcase EPD's when selecting a bull in a self replacing herd. Do you forgive a bull for not having the data if he is out of a great cow line or do you look for a bull with strong carcase data but give up some maternal traits ? IE Maternal verse Rail premiums
I know it depends on how your cows stack up and single trait selection is not good but in Angus some breeders seem to thrive on single trait selection.
Any comments (pop)

 

[Mill Iron A]

RCR on the other post brought up an excellent point that scan data is not nearly as accurate as it should be.  Some of that get's taken care of by using the same tech for one herd so at least he will do it consistently throughout so that maybe your ratios will take care of it.  I just thought I would say that when I select bulls I make it a rule that I or someone I closely trust has seen them in person as well as their mother.  Calves out  of him are great as well and see what they are mated to.  As far as carcass and cows I feel like breeding cattle is almost like a pyramid.  At the bottom we have soundess, structure, and survivability.  The next tier brings pattern, width, and production traits. And once all these are satisfied I move to carcass.  Not many bulls fit all of this but at the same time I'm not very strict on the numbers.  As long as they are going in the right direction ie. I'm not breeding up cattle with .9 carcass e.p.d's. I would if everything else was good about them as well.... But a bull that does everything else well and is breed average or better for carcass away we go.

 

[aandtcattle]

RCR on the other post brought up an excellent point that scan data is not nearly as accurate as it should be.  Some of that get's taken care of by using the same tech for one herd so at least he will do it consistently throughout so that maybe your ratios will take care of it.  I just thought I would say that when I select bulls I make it a rule that I or someone I closely trust has seen them in person as well as their mother.  Calves out  of him are great as well and see what they are mated to.  As far as carcass and cows I feel like breeding cattle is almost like a pyramid.  At the bottom we have soundess, structure, and survivability.  The next tier brings pattern, width, and production traits. And once all these are satisfied I move to carcass.  Not many bulls fit all of this but at the same time I'm not very strict on the numbers.  As long as they are going in the right direction ie. I'm not breeding up cattle with .9 carcass e.p.d's. I would if everything else was good about them as well.... But a bull that does everything else well and is breed average or better for carcass away we go.

I agree 100%!  This is very similar to the way I select bulls to use artificially. 
We retain our own heifers for herd replacements, we retain ownership on our calves most years and we expect our cows to survive on range without supplement 8-9 months out of the year.  So with that being said, you can see that I juggle all traits and bulls that I use must be not only balanced numbered but have the pedigree and phenotype to sire females that work in our environment.
As far as wrapping carcass and cows into one package, I have had the best luck with moderate framed (mid 5 frame) easy fleshing bulls that are break-even for milk and "on the right side of zero for IMF and REA".  Extremes in any single trait have been disastrous for us as it seems we give up far too much in another area to gain in another.
Bulls that have recently fit my program extremely well have been: Rockin Horse Tailor Made, Blevins Raindance, BAR EXT Traveler 205, GAR Yield Grade, GAR Preemminent and LD Redirect.

 

[vanridge]

We try to pick for both without giving too much up on either side. We keep our own replacement heifers and we get our pay cheque from the calves in the market so we are trying to do both without buying replacement females. We are a commercial herd and we try select heifers off cows that milk well and are easy keepers, and that don't eat too much. We do the same when selecting bulls. Maybe in a 100 years we'll have it figured out!