JIT, Iowa, SJ, shortdawg, OHB & all the Shorthorn herd (aka help me rhonda!)

[DL]

OK guys - here is the dilemma - after 1 AI my huge cow is open and I have given her one last chance to get pregnant or it is OTD! She is 2400 pounds (purebred Maine Polleroid x my big red cow - Strutt son x Smithbilt and RB8W) - with the exception of her size she is relatively flawless - so I am looking to downsize her and looking for advise from the herd on which of the following Shorthorn bulls to use - all ELBEE genetics - Wymore , Improver Plus , 21R. I have been able to downsize her with Artic Power a Canadian outcross Maine bull, but everything else seems to maintain frame...I also have Gizmo but it is a precious commodity and I intend to save it to flush the big red cow who is currently carrying a Gizmo baby and I expect fabulous things...

This is the dam (big red cow) of the cow in question - she is a Cornerstone dam and with the exception of a not beautiful udder at 13 she is OK in my book. Her daughter (also a Cornerstone dam) is bigger both in frame and mass but has a beautiful udder (and takes a rotten picture

so have at it - I lutalysed her this am so I need to make my decision soon

ps I already talked to ELBEE - it would be silly not to talk to the breeder when they actually (1) will talk to you (2) will be honest with you  and (3) are nice and good and decent human beings - Show Heifer sorry you haven't had similar experiences  ;D

 

[red]

DL- are you wanting Shorthorn only? Personally, I'd use Money Man on her. I'm using him on my big red cow to downsize her & pretty up the front & shoulders.
Guess that's just my thoughts going in from the Maine side of it.
Hope you can get her bred, am sure she's still got some productive years in her.

Red

 

[DL]

DL- are you wanting Shorthorn only? Personally, I'd use Money Man on her. I'm using him on my big red cow to downsize her & pretty up the front & shoulders.
Guess that's just my thoughts going in from the Maine side of it.
Hope you can get her bred, am sure she's still got some productive years in her.

Red

Hey Red - the big red cow above is bred to Gizmo - her daughter is the cow in question and her last chance is Shorthorn - none of the 3 above - now this may sound real strange and I am sure it isn't across the board but I have had several cows hard to breed AI to Maines that stick by waving the Shorthorn semen under their nose - plus I have some Money Men coming (hoping actually they are Mioney Women) - so the answer is yes Shorthorn only of those 3 bulls and as a female I do reserve the perogative to change my mind! (ps the cow in question is 6 and if she is anything like her mother she will be like the Energizer bunny only bigger - the reason she is so late is a management error - pi** poor heat detection because of the 400 year old Maple, but that is another story....)

 

[shortyjock89]

If I count as part of the Shorthorn herd, then I say Wymore.  He is siring some impressive calves, and I think that ELBEE will back me up when I say that he is the most impressive Gizmo son.  The calves should be smaller, hairy, and thick. 

 

[Doc]

DL, I know what you said on your choices, but I would seriously consider Proud Jazz. He's hot, he'll downsize , plus give you some more positives also. I think Shortdawg will back me up on this as he saw PJ this week. ;D

 

[shortyjock89]

DL, I know what you said on your choices, but I would seriously consider Proud Jazz. He's hot, he'll downsize , plus give you some more positives also. I think Shortdawg will back me up on this as he saw PJ this week. ;D

Doc, I was thinking the exact same thing. In fact, I initially mis-read DL's post and thought she just wanted to breed her cow to a Shorthorn, not just those three.  I suggested Proud Jazz and Perfect Timing, but I revised my answer.  Proud Jazz is becoming really popular in the clubby scene, and I sure wouldn't hesitate to use him.

 

[shortdawg]

Of those three, I would use Wymore. If she was mine I would use Jake's Proud Jazz on her. I saw him Thursday in his working clothes with a few cows and he is a great bull. He is not a big bull at all and for sure will bring a cow down a framescore. He was in grass about 6-8 inches high and his brisket was only about 2-3 inches above the grass. That's how deep bodied he is. You can put the " he looks like his feet hurt " thought to bed because he is as sound as advertised. I looked at maybe close to 50 calves by him and they were great, thick, sound, hairy, and flashy. The most interesting thing was the calves out of him and Charolais cross cattle. Some were SH colored and some would probably make the Char. class easily.

 

[DL]

OK guys I guess I have lost my ability to write clearly - what will go next?

The cow should be coming into heat in 3 or 4 days
I want to breed her Shorthorn and I want to downsize her
I have Wymore, Improver Plus , 21R in my tank (I have Gizmo too but I am saving it)

SJ89 - of course you are part of the herd - I discovered when I went to add to the title you only get so many letters - I probably should have deleted Rhonda

shortdawg - you must have been reading my mind re JPJ - I don't have any JPJ semen in the tank, and hype generally turns me off, and I do think he looks like his feet hurt in the picture - so I am glad to hear he is sound - I'll be on the look out for his calves...

thanks - keep those thoughts comin'

 

[OH Breeder]

I have used Gizmo and am very pleased with results. I am not familiar with Wymore as of yet.Improver PLus should also do you right.
Which do you have more semen of? I have not used Jake either and am like you on Hype. I wait til they have been out a bit. But, I am seeing some pretty good calves. I really love Gizmo. If you like the cow and you think she is physicially sound, I would use Gizmo.

 

[DL]

I have used Gizmo and am very pleased with results. I am not familiar with Wymore as of yet.Improver PLus should also do you right.
Which do you have more semen of? I have not used Jake either and am like you on Hype. I wait til they have been out a bit. But, I am seeing some pretty good calves. I really love Gizmo. If you like the cow and you think she is physicially sound, I would use Gizmo.

I love the big red cow and she is bred to Gizmo - I like the huge black cow, but with her not sticking the 1st time and with Gizmo less available and higher priced (and what I have in my tank I have plans for) I was looking for a similar to Gizmo and downsizing option..... (I am quite sure any of the 3 would work - looking for other opinions on which might be best

 

[iowa]

DL,  I have seen all 3 bulls in person and have 21R at my place running with heifers right now.  For calving ease, 21R would be your choice.  Wymore and Improvers Plus will both throw moderate framed calves. Based on the picture of this cows dam and your description, I would go with Improvers Plus. His coloring is  like that of a  maine as he is red and white.  I am going to be picking up a heifer from Lee at the end of October and she is sired by Improvers Plus and out of a Gizmo daughter. All of Lee's Improvers Plus calves were pretty impressive.

 

[justintime]

Getting in here a little late. Have been out in Alberta dialing for dollars at a dispersal sale. Great set of cows and a great sale. I had bids of $7500 from two breeders and never got the cows they wanted bought for them. Great to see a lifetime of work be rewarded in this fashion.

Sorry if I am tooting my own horn a little here, but Wolf Willow Major Leroy may be a bull to consider on your cow. He is the bull pictured under my name. We sold the world rights in him to Semex International last year and they are marketing him in about 50 - 60 countries.  The first calf by him in the US was born about 3 weeks ago. I have heard that Dale Wernicke in Illinois has a standing order at $15,000 for her at 2 days old. Dale says this calf is the best calf ever born on his farm. He has some more due in the next few days and he says he is hoping they all look like the first calf. Major Leroy sired our best sire group this year,( our first full calf crop off him)  including well known AI sires like Salute, Sin City, and K-Kim Last Call . He will moderate frame, and add thickness and butt. BWs are on the upper moderate range. I haven't used him on heifers but I know some have with few problems. All his calves here in 07 were born unassisted but all were from from females that had  at least 1 previous calving. I have not used a bull that adds more butt, and his calves have good hair as well.  The well known Dunbeacon herd in Australia ( Breeders of Dunbeacon Venture)have reported that they are extremelypleased with about 55 Major Leroy calves born there in July /07.

I bought a new bull in the dispersal in Alberta that I am pretty excited about. An outcross pedigree and sire of one of the most uniform calf crops I have seen in a long time. I wasn't needing another herd sire, but as grandfather used to say " Buy a herd bull when you see one.... not when you need one". I have owned him one day and have already had 3 offers to partner on him. Have some decisions to make I guess.

 

[DL]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts - the cow is (was) standing this am.....so

Iowa - thanks for your thoughts - I knew you had 21R roaming your pastures and figured you had recently seen all 3 - I'm going to go with Improver Plus on this cow - actually I don't think I could go wrong with any of the 3 - now we must say the fertility ditty and hope for a pregnancy and a heifer (I always want heifers!)

JIT - nothing wrong with tootie ones own horn - I have always been impressed with Leroy's pictures and stats as well as your program, but I'll betcha ya can't get a straw to me in 8 hours!  (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

[garybob]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts - the cow is (was) standing this am.....so

Iowa - thanks for your thoughts - I knew you had 21R roaming your pastures and figured you had recently seen all 3 - I'm going to go with Improver Plus on this cow - actually I don't think I could go wrong with any of the 3 - now we must say the fertility ditty and hope for a pregnancy and a heifer (I always want heifers!)

JIT - nothing wrong with tootie ones own horn - I have always been impressed with Leroy's pictures and stats as well as your program, but I'll betcha ya can't get a straw to me in 8 hours!  (lol) (lol) (lol)

The Fertility Ditty? How does it go? Something like........................................
Breed, Breed, Breed,
or You'll
Bleed, Bleed, Bleed......................................I'm not a lyricist, forgive my prose.

 

[DL]

last I heard it had something to do with Burgerville.....maybe it was a Jimmy Buffett song - the early years ;D

 

[CAB]

  JIT, do you have a web site? If not, would you please post some more info about your sires? Thank you in advance. Cab

 

[DL]

  JIT, do you have a web site? If not, would you please post some more info about your sires? Thank you in advance. Cab

CAB I am sure JIT has more to say but here is his web site  http://www.horseshoecreekfarms.com/

OK I have changed my mind! made my decision and bred the cow used the Longhorn bull Big and Ugly - (joke huh!)
Wanna guess or should I tell? Probably should have posted a picture of the cow in question.....if there is a frame score 10 she is it - notice how she dwarfs the huge house ;D ;D ;D

 

[Jill]

Of those three, I would use Wymore. If she was mine I would use Jake's Proud Jazz on her. I saw him Thursday in his working clothes with a few cows and he is a great bull. He is not a big bull at all and for sure will bring a cow down a framescore. He was in grass about 6-8 inches high and his brisket was only about 2-3 inches above the grass. That's how deep bodied he is. You can put the " he looks like his feet hurt " thought to bed because he is as sound as advertised. I looked at maybe close to 50 calves by him and they were great, thick, sound, hairy, and flashy. The most interesting thing was the calves out of him and Charolais cross cattle. Some were SH colored and some would probably make the Char. class easily.

Is there any word out yet about how they grow, we have several coming and was just curious what you had seen.  I don't mind downsizing, but I don't want a runt either, do they finish out at a decent size or have there been enough to test yet?  Thanks

 

[iowa]

Jill,  give Kevin Kimmerling a call about the Jazz calves he has had. I think he has used him more to date than most anyone, prior to this past breeding season.  Kevin told me that the only problem he has had with some Jazz calves is that some just don't grow. He said he has had a few that were only pushing 900 lbs at 12 months. The ones he said that didn't grow were the ones that hit the ground and looked like they were ready for the showring. Really thick and muscular and very showy looking. He said they all come very easily.  He said the ones that grow are really good.

 

[ELBEE]

The Canadians always find a way to bring out some great bulls. If you look back at our foundation (pre-Irish) you'll find an awfull lot of Canadian blood.

The calves on our web-site sale page are all sired by Improver Plus, except one sired by Titan. Iowa's heifer is the 030T!