judging codewords

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knabe

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i attended our local "surf n turf" show out here in CA.  pretty small, well, really small.  i think there was less than 10 in AOB heifer class and steers.  only 2 kids locally, rest from up to 200 miles away.  anyway, there was a few extremely fat bred heifers with more tail head fat on them then my fat steers.  i asked one exhibitor if he thought his heifer was too fat as i had never seen heifer that fat.  the fat was at least 10 inches front to back and at least 1.5 inches thick., maybe more.  he said he was feeding her oats, hay, soaked sugar beet meal.  said she was safe in calf for two months.  he said the judges had liked her as she was reserve at a couple of shows.  so when the judge lined them up in her class, as well as others he used a couple of terms i felt were not helpful for the exhibitors.  maybe i'm wrong.

not athletic enough = too fat, can't walk in their tracks, limited pasture exposure for exercise
combines the most good = overall low quality class, i'm probably too picky on this one.

i realize sometimes, particularly at the smaller shows, you want to keep mostly positive.
what other terms out there should be changed/eliminated to help the exhibitors? 

another thing the judge did i felt was good is he individually spent a couple moments with EVERY exhibitor off mike.  intermediate showmanship was the toughest class.  it was between a gal who showed better than her animal did, ie she set up good every time but her animal wouldn't, and the guy who won, who didn't have quite the style of the gal (not being sexist here), but set up extremely fast, was efficient and did a great job not getting cramped and hidden by other exhibitors.  it seemed the biggest mistakes people made were getting too close to the animal in front of them, so when the person behind them crowded them, they didn't have any room to adjust as they mostly moved forward to set up their feet, as they didn't have any room to move back.  granted, the ring was too small, but hey, it's showmanship.
 

the angus111

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knabe,  one phrase i heard alot is she will make a good cow=now leave her in the pasture.so i leave take her to the pasture and wonder when i can show her again.
 

shortyjock89

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the angus111 said:
knabe,  one phrase i heard alot is she will make a good cow=now leave her in the pasture.so i leave take her to the pasture and wonder when i can show her again.

I hate hearing that phrase..we're showing heifers that are going to be cows..shouldnt the animal that will be the best cow win?    Also, I was at a show this last week and I have an awesome market heifer. I won champion Market Heifer on Jr. Show day, but on open show, I only won my class.  These were the judge's exact words:  "The Shorthorn-looking female is easily the best show animal in the ring but she can't win today because she just isn't fat enough yet."  Now, I know it was a market class, but it was ridiculous..my heifer was much better and the judge even said it..oh well.  To top it off, the judge used a really small steer for Res. Grand market animal...so I guess it's ok for steers to be small, but not heifers?
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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The most naturally heavy muscled, freest moving and nicest patterned calf today but... = Doesn't have the right politics to win.
 

red

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too green. does that mean they're the correct age? I mean when they say a 6 month old calf is too green, I want to say of course they are! They're 6 months old. as opposed to some of the others that look stale & are actually 10 months old.  ::)

Red
 

shortyjock89

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You know what would really shake up the club  calf scene?  Have someone like Garybob or Justintime judge a few major shows across the nation over the next couple years...Good cattle would actually win and the people who get away with showing crippled up hairballs would get their just desserts.  It's what the show cattle community needs, but who knows if something like that will actually  happen....
 

the angus111

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imo, i think you get to the major breed shows a breeding heifer is going to get a better look.the jackpots you get college guys,ag teachers(jimmyski nothing personal) and they go for hairballs.not all and this is my observation.rusty
 

shortyjock89

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A3..you are quite right, I wish there were more "real" cattlemen judging the shows I go to.  We get alot of College Boys..mostly from Kansas State...Some are actually very good judges, while others just go for hair and flash.  Nothing against Kansas State, as they have one of the best Ag programs in the country, but it seems like every other judge comes from there...
 

Show Dad

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I heard a judge in a market beef show actually say when giving his reasons why he place a steer second in its class that even though it had the better carcuss that it didn't have the "pop" a show calf should have.

I'm sorry but somehow the "Market" needs to be put back in the market class!!

If you want a "show" class then it needs it own class.
 

SKF

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I hate that when it's a market class and the judge will pick one with a showy look. That happened this year tor my son his steer took second and the judge's reason was becasue the steer he plced first had a more showy appearence because he had a cleaner neck even though he said my son's steer was finished. When we got the carcass results the first place eye appealling steer only graded standard. It was the only steer in the whole show that graded standard. I thought a market show was about the product!
 

Show Dad

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SKF - I hate what happend. IMHO, These market judges should be given a rating that reflects how the carcasses were graded as campared to how they placed them. That would sure change their focus.
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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Our county fair uses ultra sound data collected at weigh in the first day of the fair for a ultrasound carcass class. They don't release the results untill after the champion steer is picked but the judge does get the heads up that day before he starts. I think it may keep the judges at least thinking about how the steers will grade.
 

shorthorns r us

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what to do with the steer that scans .85, the nationally known judge says, on mic, that he isn't that fat as he makes him grand, then kills at .92 and still doesn't make choice?
 

knabe

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dang the angus111, that was the funniest thing i've heard in a while.  comedy is about timing, and you have it!!!!!

"wonder when i can show her again."

red, i'm going to pick up a little bit on the green thing.  the judge mentioned that a couple of times.  it seems like they can't come up with words to describe the awkward stage of a heifer's growing period and the diversity of fat deposition from unnatural exposure to excess feed.  as judges probably want to balance their comments to be mostly positive, they may be suffering from comment creep of being too positive if there are that many essentially stale heifers.  probably what it has something to do with essentially rookies like me trying to cover up the lack of depth and spring of rib with fat.  i know i have one cow with massive sweep that is in one of her heifers, another cow, not so much, and her calf is kinda pinched behind the elbows and is really long making her look even less capacious, yet she's my fastest grower.

i think i'm going to get a measuring tape and chart over time and close my eyes SJ.

on a different note, who has noticed in the cattle which cows the snow melts off their back first, last, and if there is any corrolation to anything?

and finally, perhaps there should be a pop class to see who can make their steer drink the most right before entering the ring.  i need a straw.
 

sjcattleco

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WE showed our white shorthorn steer at the Ohio State shorthorn show last saturday... our calf was easily the thickest steer in the barn and probably the prettiest.... and definatly the most extreme... Judge called him too extreme and had too much muscle... this sucker moves like a cat and covers his tracks completely!!!! He is bold fronted but in no way coarse.. and he paddles a bit in the front unlike his brother but that is why he is a steer!!!! Never in my life have I ever heard that a steer had too much muscle! The nice thing was after the show alot of people came by to say that we should have won it and that they really liked him... That was very nice and really what it is all about....
 

sawboss

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My personal favorite is "I like this animal for where it is at for this stage of the game". My oldest son heard this several times last year after placing second in class behind an exotic steer in local prospect shows.  At the county show he smoked this same steer in class, as it had become too heavy and stale.  I reminded him of the losses and stressed the final show is the end of the game, not the first three quarters.
 

mommacow

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How bout at an actual fat show,

" a good feedlot steer, but just dosent have the hair to compete with the steers standing above him"  :eek:  wwwwhhhhaaatttt?

Best part of the whole thing tho was winning the carcass contest with him!!

 

jimmyski

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the angus111 said:
imo, i think you get to the major breed shows a breeding heifer is going to get a better look.the jackpots you get college guys,ag teachers(jimmyski nothing personal) and they go for hairballs.not all and this is my observation.rusty

Angus3, nothing personal taken.

I am in fact a college kid, who judged at the Junior and Senior College Level, however, I was never good enough in College to get too big of a head about it. I was always pretty decent at placing classes but having never judged until my Sophomore year of Junior College, I was a long ways behind in the reasons room. At the same time, I was never big into the showring either, I spent most of my youth (16 years) wrestling and that's actually how I ended up at the Junior College. For some lucky (I guess you could say that now) reason, I tore up my shoulder and that's how I ended up on a livestock judging team. So, one thing that has helped me more than anything is that I have no ties to really any breeder in the showring and don't have to worry about the politics thing as of right now. That is one thing I despise more than anything. If I get to were I would like to be in terms of judging a few larger shows, I know it's something that probably can not be helped, even with as much as I try and stay out of it, mainly due to the fact that if you judge enough shows, you are bound to start running into the same people and hopefully make a few friends along the way. The few people that I do have connections with, I always tell them where I am judging if they are in the vicinity, and let them know that I would preferr if they wouldn't come that day, just to try and avoid those situations.

Also a lot of you are correct in the fact that we try to be big and general when we can be along with staying mostly positive.  You will also never hear me say anything about hair in a Market Steer class. Sometimes it does add look and if it's a really close pair, it might get sorted a little bit on profile and balance. But the overall determining factors, should first be muscle and finish; 2nd - Structure; and 3rd-Balance/Profile. At least that's what I'm looking for when I judge a Market Class.
 
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