KSU closed linebred Shorthorns

[coyote]

here is a site that might help.
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/

 

[Lucky_P]

RX3 cattle - developed from Red/White Holsteins, Herefords and Red Angus.  Believe Pioneer was, at one time, one of the major RX3 breeders,before they got out of the animal seedstock business and concentrated solely on crop seeds. 
Still a few RX3 breeders out there, but they're not too numerous anymore.
Always looked like a good commercial composite to me - 1/2 Red Angus, 1/4 Hereford, 1/4  R/W Holstein.  Never got around to trying 'em; don't know where you'd find semen, if any was available.

  http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/rx3/index.htm

 

[kfacres]

RX3 cattle - developed from Red/White Holsteins, Herefords and Red Angus.  Believe Pioneer was, at one time, one of the major RX3 breeders,before they got out of the animal seedstock business and concentrated solely on crop seeds. 
Still a few RX3 breeders out there, but they're not too numerous anymore.
Always looked like a good commercial composite to me - 1/2 Red Angus, 1/4 Hereford, 1/4  R/W Holstein.  Never got around to trying 'em; don't know where you'd find semen, if any was available.

  http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/rx3/index.htm

RX3 was popular by which prior singer?  The name is on the tip of my tongue, but cannot think right now...

 

[olsun]

Thanks again guys, I stand corrected on the Brown Swiss thing. There is or was no Angus influence in the breed. Earl

 

[sue]

Wow........JIT...........I have ahard time on getting a mental idea of(your explanation) of how the commercial deal works in Canada. Alot of breeders down here went to TWO breeds in order to be a one stop bull buying place. I also think there is a difference between a heinze 57(57 breeds) herd and a herd that has 3 or 4 breeds. I don't think I have ever seen a commercial herd that does the perfect 3 way cross with charts or graphs over 10 years or whatever. I think there are herds here that are getting pretty heavy on Angus genetics in the commercial arena. They are set up for another breed to move in.jmo

aj... I am not a one stop bull buying place for most of my customers. I used to run 2 purebred herds of Shorthorn and Charolais but we made the decision almost a decade ago to concentrate on one breed, and we chose to sell the Charolais and keep the Shorthorns. One of our biggest bull buyers started buying Charolais bulls from us, and eventually decided to try a Shorthorn bull, that he liked in the pen. When we sold our Charolais cows this guy was buying almost all Shorthorn bulls . He now buys Shorthorn and Charolais bulls, and crosses these two breeds in his herd.He buys his Charolias bulls from another outfit.  He tells me that he is averaging two breeding seasons more on his Shorthorn bulls than he does his Charolais bulls. The other guy that has bought 16 bulls in the past decade also uses Red Angus bulls and Horned Hereford bulls. We do have one commercial breeder who only uses Shorthorn bulls, but most of my buyers crossbreed. In 2010, I sold 6 bulls to one producer who had 1200 AngusX Hereford cows. Most of the Shorthorn bulls he purchased were used to breed heifers and he told me last year that he had very good success calving these heifers out. ( I guess he hasn't heard that Shorthorns are cow killers!!)

Cow herds are getting bigger all the time, here in Saskatchewan. There are many cow herds of 500+ and I know of two commerical herds of 3000 + cows within 150 miles of my farm. If a person can ever start selling bulls to these larger outfits, bull selling becomes a major part of your business as these guys usually buy bulls by the trailer load rather than one or two at a time.

Salute is a good example of using a linebred bull ... the very sire of timeline? salute is stacked with trump, rose, and 57th.  I am struggling with why you "dont get the benefit of linebred programs" ? Linebred programs are basically the most disciplined... sorry i dont know a thing about Ksu  just the purebred programs I have visited. Frankly if you want show quality "why wouldnt you stack cf trump"???  Hey - On the rose note... go and visits NPS- Nick linebreeds rose???
  as for the commerical bulll buyer- that want to buy from a seedstock program with stacks of generation...?
I miss the confusion you have  about line breeding cattle JIT?
Really NPS is the most popular prefix in shorthorns.... CF is not in the dark either... but they stack it pretty tight too. And hey Waukauru and gold spear are like cherrios and milk?  Breeding cattle and stacking pedigrees is a "flipping art or gift" ... you have a vision and just do it.  I see so much respect in linebred programs at any level.. if you show or sell bulls??? 
Take a look at the most uniform group of bulls  that sell year after year in the sun country sale???  JT  yep  JT    JT  offer the most uniformity in that offering and why? ?? Go and look at the cow herd? Do the cows all look the same ? 

 

[justintime]

Sue, I understand linebreeding and am not opposed it it... not at all. My point was only that it is hard to have a strictly linebred herd, when your bull buyers are constantly wanting to purchase bulls that are outcross to their previous bull purchases.  I have linebred lots of cattle, but I also try to have different blends of genetics. Last spring I added 6 linebred females from the Kildysart cow family and we will be linebreeding them even further. They are an interesting group of females. 
I was not saying linebreeding is wrong... quite the contrary. I was just saying that when I make my living from my cows, I have to produce cattle that I can sell, and right now, my main bull buyers are demanding bulls that are not closely related to others they have purchased. That does not mean that I dislike linebreeding, nor does it mean that I don't linebreed.
You are right in mentioning the Thompson herd as being a good herd. They have linebred some, but they also have blended several different bloodlines in their herd. The Burwash, Venture and Saskvalley Transport bulls they have recently used as herd sires are really not closely related... if at all.

Again, I was not saying anything bad about linebreeding but I was just saying a breeder has to also concern himself with producing what his customers demand.

 

[sue]

Best thing you could do is visit seedstock programs that have great cow herds ... they will coach u on how you have a steady market for bull sales. no excuses

 

[kfacres]

IMO- the difference b/'w bull sellers- and bull makers-- is that the producer knows what bulls will work for the next generation- and tell the buyer to buy accordingly. 

I have found, the best customers, are the ones with confidence in you to select what will work for them- not the ones who come in and tell you what the want...  They do not know your (or mine) genetics-- only I do... 

Time and time again, my commercial sire buyers want something outcrossed- and want to tell me what they need.  I encourage them to: sometimes: go a different route- b/c I am sure that something else will better work with what they are doing- b/c of the way it is linebred.

My females are linebred- and are mated to like linebred sires: with that, I can better predict what they will do in future generations.  b/c of that, I have seen and been involved in many instances where purchasers wanting something different- and selected it: however, I encouraged them to take something of the same, or close (b/c I knew it would work)-- in the end: my prediction worked awesome- they're pick failed... Why?  I knew my genetics--- they just guessed...

O, and don't forget about the "mystical pedigree game"...

Quite often I have people calling me, wanting to purchase 4 females and an unrelated male to use on them to build with...  I tell them, that is the poorest decision they could ever make (purchasing that unrelated male).  They need to get established, before trying some outcross-- especially when starting with linebred genetics... 

 

[knabe]

Bull sellers and bull makers both have their place and rarely do either have the resources or interest to do both.

The best wives are the ones who have confidence in their husbands to tell them what they want.

If only more people would think alike this world would be a lot better off.

I like blue except when I hate it.

I like circles cause I know where the troll is since I'm one myself.

 

[feeder duck]

One must remember that in line  breeding you not only double the good traits we tweak the bad