Maine-Anjou Progress in Motion

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common sense

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The AMAA passed two new motions at their last board meeting. 
a)       No Maine-Anjou carrier bulls will be registered after Jan. 1, 2009. This rule is in regard to PHA & TH, so bulls will need to be free by parentage or by test.

b)       Beginning Jan. 1, 2009 calves will not be registered out of carrier bulls of another breed. (the wording in the motion is a little different but this is the bottom line of the motion.)

Cudos to the AMAA board for focusing on the betterment of the breed!  This will affect all of us but I think that it is a step in the right direction.  It is for the good of the many.

I also should add that these motions may come back up for discussion again but this is where the motions sit at this point in time.


 

red

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It's on the web site under the minutes of the board meeting. I have to agree w/ you that they are taking a step in the right direction. I hope some of the other breeds w/ defects will follow suit!
I'm sure the board meeting was very interesting when they were discussing this. Can't say the AMMA is sweeping it under the rug!

Red
 

knabe

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so can one use a carrier bull after that, get offspring that are PHAF and register them?  perhaps this is the real reason for the drop in price of irish whiskey.  when this comes up for vote, will it be unanomous?

barrelracer, since the test is now official, can you say what the gene is yet?
 

Jill

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What about carrier cows of another breed, doesn't make sense to me to limit it to bulls in this case senario?
 

aj

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As worded carrier bull semen or existing bulls can be used but if offspring is carrier then it can't be registered as a bull? So......the maine breeding cattle is possibly going to be cleaned up but the club calf will still use carrier bulls and I would think there would be demand from the club calf industry for unregistered maine bulls. Did I read it right? I can't remember if the herfords did something similar in the past with the dwarfism deal. Wow I'm surprized. I would think clean lines will be really in demand here shortly. :)
 

DL

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Jill said:
What about carrier cows of another breed, doesn't make sense to me to limit it to bulls in this case senario?

Good for the AMAA! (clapping) (clapping)

Jill I think it has to do with the potential greater impact a bull can have in regards to defects and the goal to eliminate them ....see "what do you think about this" http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php/topic,2408.0.html
 

Doc

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common sense said:
The AMAA passed two new motions at their last board meeting. 
a)       No Maine-Anjou carrier bulls will be registered after Jan. 1, 2009. This rule is in regard to PHA & TH, so bulls will need to be free by parentage or by test.

b)       Beginning Jan. 1, 2009 calves will not be registered out of carrier bulls of another breed. (the wording in the motion is a little different but this is the bottom line of the motion.)

Cudos to the AMAA board for focusing on the betterment of the breed!  This will affect all of us but I think that it is a step in the right direction.  It is for the good of the many.

I also should add that these motions may come back up for discussion again but this is where the motions sit at this point in time.
So are you saying if I bred a maine cow to say Kool & got a THF/PHAF calf , I couldn't register it with AMAA? :-\
 

Show Heifer

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To say I would have loved to be a fly on the wall at THAT meeting is an understatement!!!!
So is the "vote" made public like the senate vote? Who voted Y and who voted N??? THAT would be interesting!!!

Quite amusing isn't it DL?  (clapping) (clapping)
 

Jill

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Doc said:
common sense said:
The AMAA passed two new motions at their last board meeting. 
a)       No Maine-Anjou carrier bulls will be registered after Jan. 1, 2009. This rule is in regard to PHA & TH, so bulls will need to be free by parentage or by test.

b)       Beginning Jan. 1, 2009 calves will not be registered out of carrier bulls of another breed. (the wording in the motion is a little different but this is the bottom line of the motion.)

Cudos to the AMAA board for focusing on the betterment of the breed!  This will affect all of us but I think that it is a step in the right direction.  It is for the good of the many.

I also should add that these motions may come back up for discussion again but this is where the motions sit at this point in time.
So are you saying if I bred a maine cow to say Kool & got a THF/PHAF calf , I couldn't register it with AMAA? :-\
I guess I really don't understand that one.
I guess I would also question who verifies the parentage on free by parentage are we DNA testing?
 

DL

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This is the exact wording (on the AMAA site)
Breed Improvement
Chairman Nessler reported that when we are ready, Dr Beever is ready to start work on a DNA marker test for Spastic Paresis. Consensus was to wait until the last wrinkles are worked out of the reporting issues for PHA.
The Breed Improvement Committee moved, effective Jan. 1, 2009, to be accepted for registry into the AMAA herd book, bulls will have to be free of carrier status of lethal genetic defects per the genetic defects rules of the AMAA. Free status to be determined by test or parentage. Currently, the lethal genetic defects are TH and PHA. Seconded by Hartman. Motion Passed.

Moved by Radamacher and seconded by Nessler to put females under the same registry rules concerning genetic defects as bulls, effective Jan 1, 2011. Motion failed, two were for and 10 opposed.

Nessler moved, effective Jan. 1, 2009, to be accepted into the AMAA herd book, the sire of the said animal must either be a registered Maine-Anjou or an animal which is tested free of lethal genetic defects. If the said animal is not registered in the breed, then a DNA blood typing must also be on file with AMAA as well as the test results. In other words, no animal, regardless of status, will be registered from a non AMAA registered carrier sire. Seconded by Elliott. Motion carried.


I am not sure I understand it either or am properly interpreting it - but if I am what Doc said appears to be correct and that appears to be a pretty stupid (stupid only said in the most positive way) rule with little rational thought given to it - getting rid of lethal genetic defects is certainly a good thing, but how does not registering a THF and PHAF animal out of carriers help with that goal???

 

JbarL

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DL said:
Jill said:
What about carrier cows of another breed, doesn't make sense to me to limit it to bulls in this case senario?

Good for the AMAA! (clapping) (clapping)

Jill I think it has to do with the potential greater impact a bull can have in regards to defects and the goal to eliminate them ....see "what do you think about this" http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php/topic,2408.0.html

maine futures seem a bit brighter (finally)  (clapping) ......with the recent commercial (original) attributes of the maine being marketed by the amaa with a joint venture with sek, on the basis of the commercial  qualities, i expect all genetics facalities will soon follow suit. ( by 2009, they will have no other choice)......cross bred carries will remain for some time, and the lack of registeration with any registry will allow for alot of "pretty" cattle, still avaliable to those who wish to particapate. looking at the big picture i see a lack of black at the top of the heap....get ready shorties...your times' (turns)  a commin'.....jbarl
 

red

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It's going to interesting. Are they going to grandfather bulls that are already carriers & registered now? When the cut-off date is here will it be bulls that are born after 1/09 that can't be registered?
I see it affecting a lot of the non-Maine bulls that are registered for Mainetainers. For example all the Heatwaves & Heatseekers that are being used. It might cut back on the number of Mainetainers. I look for the crossbreed shows to be really booming!
I had heard a lot of rumours at Louisville about the meeting. One of the rumours was that no bull out of a carrier could be registered period. I guess in a way that's almost what will be happening. You could register a PHAF bull out of a carrier bull but just not put down a sire? Hum, sounds like a sticky wicket approaching! I see a lot of DNA testing in store.

Red
 

knabe

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DL said:
how does not registering a THF and PHAF animal out of carriers help with that goal???[/color][/b]

kinda concerned here.  limiting playing with genetics based on breed seems a little discriminatory.  carrier is a carrier.  i guess it's a way to close the herd a little bit.  maybe that old PHAF/THF semen will see some use.  anyone been to france lately?
 

xxcc

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in regard to not letting THF/PHAF calves being sired by a carrier of another breed be registered within the Maine herdbook, I agree with DL...what's the point.  unless I missed something, that's quite posibly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

if you look at the following site: http://www.maine-anjou.org/upgrade.html and look at the listing of females that can be registered when sired by commercial bulls, wouldn't you're clean "Kool" daughter be registerable if the sire, Kool, was listed as a commercial bull and you supplied the test results that indicated that she was clean?

sounds like a bunch of BS to me.  the mainetainer end of the breed has sure been a can of worms in regard to rule making.

If agree with anyone who has said that all clean animal, proved clean by parentage or testing, should be eligible for register, irregardless or their sire or dam's breed composition as long as their parents fall within the necessary percentage requirements listing at the above link.
 

common sense

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I believe that the point John Boddicker was trying to make when I talked to him was that these motions were not the final word.  He expects that these motions will be revisited at the next meeting.  It's a starting point. This is a very serious issue and I am sure that the board will want to take some time to get the kinks worked out and make this work for the better of the breed. 
 

DL

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Doc said:
Thanks DL, Unless  it jumps a generation I don't uderstand their ruling at all. ???

CAB - John Boddicker told me today that your interpretation is correct but that it is already on the agenda for the next board meeting - he also said that as I know this is an issue with no easy answers - I think it is a work in progress but they have stepped up to the plate and I have to applaud them for that.  (clapping) I do find it curious that while the AMAA required testing for TH and PHA on donors and bulls collected, the ASA waited on the PHA until the test was licensed - not sure I understand that one - if I get any other info I'll report back
;)
 

Show Heifer

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Saving the maine breed? It will take much more than this to do that.....
"Free by parentage" - Wow, Dr. B told me he could have isolated this gene much earlier had the pedigree information giving by the members were accurate. So what now? Everyone going to be honest on pedigrees all of a sudden? Don't think so.  I think they should require a neg PHA/TH test regardless of pedigree or breed.

And if the breed is trying to save itself, it should not "grandfather" any older bull in. Some folks were caught with their pocketbook in the wrong place, but, I guess thats just the way it goes. These bulls could produce offspring forever, so allowing that to happen would be worthless to the ruling.

Saving the maine breed? All the carriers that are not registered will just dissappear? Doubt it. They will end up in the commercial herds creating a monster that some have already dealt with, and some are ticking the ol' bomb. Not sure how to regulate that. I guess asking breeders to be honest with pedigree, PHA/TH status would be a bit of a stretch.

Is the vote public knowledge? Who voted for and against?  Was it unanimous? Doesn't say that? Who dissapproved the female vote? 10 members....maybe owners of such?  How are we to know?

But, even though it is flawed beyond its start...it is at least a start. Maybe the very few who spoke out long ago are making a difference.
 

common sense

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The Maine Anjou have endured the test of time and I don't think that the actions of the board were to "save the breed".  The breed doesn't need saving.  It needs and has good board members that are stewards of the breed and represent the wishes of the members. They are working in a combined effort to address the issues of genetic disorders, not just PHA, in order to continue the improvement of the breed.  To make decisions and put them into place overnight would be poor management on their behalf and would be disastrous to the breed and the people that breed Maine Anjou cattle. These kinds of changes have to be done carefully with the help of accredited professionals over a period of time otherwise nobody benefits. I don't think that it is fair to single out one breed and make it sound as if they are the only breed with inaccurate pedigrees.  I think this can be found in almost any breed association.

Commercial herds didn't acquire any potential carriers overnight.  They have most likely had them for years and they are not about to sell all of their cows or have them all tested.  They will have the choice of using clean bulls.  To say that PHA can be eradicated is ridiculous. We are going to have to keep our fingers on the pulse of this genetic disorder much like any other disorder in other breeds.  Some people will never test or even give PHA a second thought.

In a perfect world everyone would be honest and we would know precisely what our cows are actually sired by.  Dishonesty is not always to blame and giving everyone a bad name is unfair. You have to factor in human error as well.  Maybe the cow calved somewhere between her ai date and her pasture exposure date, maybe somebody didn't double check the straw of semen that was thawed by somebody else, maybe the neighbors bull snuck into the pasture during the night...and the list goes on and on.  It happens all the time.  I hate to point fingers and call everyone liars when pedigrees don't line up right.  With that kind of mentality it would be hard to even function in a normal world.

The old cliche that if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen holds true in this situation.  This entire process is not going to be easy for ANYBODY. I personally am glad that the AMAA has an all volunteer board that is willing to work on improving and promoting the Maine Anjou breed. Those board members are working for us and looking out for the breed.  I have never had any problem talking to any of them about my concerns.  I have attended board meetings to discuss them as well.  There is always room for new faces so if we aren't happy with what they are doing or if we feel that we can bring something better to the table then we have the ability to actively run for a position on the board. 
 

justme

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(clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (clapping)well written, thought over comment common sense...bravo!
 
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