Maine Enthusiast .......Advice Please

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OH Breeder

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I have three straws of Red Knight semen. I wanted to use it this spring.So, if you were me would you

A- use him on one of my purebred shorthorn cows
B- save it for a flush and use it on .....
C- Sell it- cuz it ain't worth it

I have a cow that is a granddaughter and she milks like a holstein and is a great momma.

Please your advice is needed!
 

Jill

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We had a Red Knight graddaughter also and she was one of the best cows we had, I guess if it were me I would flush a shorthorn with it.
 

Show Heifer

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Call some sale managers...If I understand you correctly, the semen is maine. So I am curious as to why you would use it on a shorthorn thus creating a crossbred calf. If (and I don't know Red Knight) it is valuable as a maine bull, I would think it would be prudent to use in a maine cow, flushing probably.  But, unless you can cash in on the offspring and it truly is valuable, it might be worth it to sell it. A sale manager could tell you what it is worth , what the offspring (both purebred maine and shorthorn cross) are worth, and what a flush might do either being sold or its resulting offspring.
Trust me, I have researched several breeds this past few months and did the pro's and con's of all the different options. Basically, it comes down to what YOU want to do and if it is feasiable to do.  And also, trust your gut.  I did, and I am happy as a cat in a milk parlor!!!!! (I know DL, don't give cats milk!!!)
 

CAB

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  Just asking, was Red Knight the sire of Shakedown? If he was, I would research that pedigree and see if I couldn't make a mating as similiar to that as possible, and of coarse with the tests we have, keep it clean. I would think that a purebred flush should be the best use of the semen. Cab
 

AAOK

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I will assume you have semen on #164  RED KNIGHT, the Cunia son.  If the Shorthorn books are still as they were a few years ago, Red Knight, a Fullblood Maine-Anjou, bred to a fullblood Shorthorn cow would produce a 75% Shorthorn calf.  Red Knight, by todays scale would be about a 7.5 frame score bull with a 2.6 Bwt. EPD.  Be sure to breed him to a cow that can accomodate a larger than average calf.

AI, Flush, or Sell are all reasonable possibilities as to what to do with this semen.  I would think that if you were willing to wait for just the right breeder, you could probably pocket $3000 for your 3 straws.  Flushing, or AI may produce a big fat ZERO.

If your Flush/Recipient/Live Calf % is good, and you have truly exceptional Donor cow, I would advise you flush.  If your Flush/Recip/calf % is a poor as mine, I would suggest to use your 3 straws to AI 3 different cows; only if you have the cow quality to produce at least a $3000 calf.

 
 

Jill

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Ok, didn't realize semen was that expensive, I am a chicken and wouldn't consider using semen that high unless I knew I had something he would click with.  If it were mine and worth 3000 I would probably sell it.
 

Telos

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I would think it would be difficult to get $1000 a straw for any semen. As far as color pattern, the safest mating would be a Shorthorn cow. Red and white or black and white Maine genetics do not normally fetch a whole lot of money.

There are many registered Shorthorns with Maine Anjou Genetics. The Maine x Shorthorn cross has become so linebreed over the generations they really should not be considered a cross anymore, but a modern day North American bred Shorthorn. This is just how breeds of anything are created. Even though some of these genetics are still called Shorthorns, they are genetically different then the old Shorthorn pedigrees of the early 70's and before. I think the main reason Shorthorn breeders infused Maine genetics in their Shorthorns was to get more total muscle dimension along with more performance regarding weight.

The day has come where we can only differentiate the different breeds on our continent by the color or color pattern of hair. This is neither a bad or a good thing, but just the way it is. Consistency of these cattle is perhaps not as great. It will take generations of linebreeding specifics traits in order for this consistency to be achieved.
 

OH Breeder

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Show Heifer said:
Call some sale managers...If I understand you correctly, the semen is maine. So I am curious as to why you would use it on a shorthorn thus creating a crossbred calf. If (and I don't know Red Knight) it is valuable as a maine bull, I would think it would be prudent to use in a maine cow, flushing probably.  But, unless you can cash in on the offspring and it truly is valuable, it might be worth it to sell it. A sale manager could tell you what it is worth , what the offspring (both purebred maine and shorthorn cross) are worth, and what a flush might do either being sold or its resulting offspring.
Trust me, I have researched several breeds this past few months and did the pro's and con's of all the different options. Basically, it comes down to what YOU want to do and if it is feasiable to do.   And also, trust your gut.  I did, and I am happy as a cat in a milk parlor!!!!! (I know DL, don't give cats milk!!!)

I want to try and reply one by one.
Purebred/Fullblood Maine on the Shorthorn book at considered 75% if they are red and white, if they are black and or black and white they can only be as high as 50%. So, as far as genetics, I would have a half blood or so mainetainer or a purebred shorthorn.
 

OH Breeder

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AAOK said:

I will assume you have semen on #164  RED KNIGHT, the Cunia son.  If the Shorthorn books are still as they were a few years ago, Red Knight, a Fullblood Maine-Anjou, bred to a fullblood Shorthorn cow would produce a 75% Shorthorn calf.  Red Knight, by todays scale would be about a 7.5 frame score bull with a 2.6 Bwt. EPD.  Be sure to breed him to a cow that can accomodate a larger than average calf.

AI, Flush, or Sell are all reasonable possibilities as to what to do with this semen.  I would think that if you were willing to wait for just the right breeder, you could probably pocket $3000 for your 3 straws.  Flushing, or AI may produce a big fat ZERO.

If your Flush/Recipient/Live Calf % is good, and you have truly exceptional Donor cow, I would advise you flush.  If your Flush/Recip/calf % is a poor as mine, I would suggest to use your 3 straws to AI 3 different cows; only if you have the cow quality to produce at least a $3000 calf.

 


AAOK,
Yes, Red Knight 164
Originally when I bought the semen, the best price I could find was about 150 a straw. If you have found different please let me know. That is great.
I do have a larger framed cow that could hand the birthweight but was afraid that the calf would end up being a frame score 7. Steermaker is a Red Knight son and if I remember right the calves don' t get quiet that big.
Does anyone have any photos of Red Knight, thought he looked kind of like his daddy Cunia.
Good idea on flush vs AI.
I have three cows I would use him on- One is a 62% maine out of Kadabara and Taz on the other side a maternal package. Could use a little better leg set. One Purebred Shorty- Byland Cindy Beauty little larger framed flatter made deep body, the last is a WECC cow that is a baldy out of OCC Finalist larger framed deep deep bodied and stout made. Would love to get a female out of him, that is why I would shoot for a flush and have the embryos sexed for heifers.

THank you for your advice. Much appreciated.
 

OH Breeder

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Jill said:
Ok, didn't realize semen was that expensive, I am a chicken and wouldn't consider using semen that high unless I knew I had something he would click with.  If it were mine and worth 3000 I would probably sell it.

Jill I am a big chicken too. I have a straw of Sonny and the first release ABS semen from Heatwave. Everyone wants it and I am afraid to use it for fear the cow won't settle. If it is realy worth that, not sure of the market I guess. This will make a difference on what I decide to do I guess.
 

AAOK

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OH Breeder said:
Jill said:
Ok, didn't realize semen was that expensive, I am a chicken and wouldn't consider using semen that high unless I knew I had something he would click with.  If it were mine and worth 3000 I would probably sell it.

Jill I am a big chicken too. I have a straw of Sonny and the first release ABS semen from Heatwave. Everyone wants it and I am afraid to use it for fear the cow won't settle. If it is realy worth that, not sure of the market I guess. This will make a difference on what I decide to do I guess.

I didn't do any price checking before I popped off about $1000/straw.  It's been a good 12 - 15 years since I've heard much about Red Knight or seen him listed with any of the suppliers.  Back when I knew of some Red Knight cows, most said the black 1/2 bloods were much better cows than their Cunia daughters.  Price is always determined by the buyer.  I am only saying that if you could connect with a buyer specifically interested in using Red Knight, the price might be there. 

There is lots, let me say that again, lots of semen demanding well over $1000/straw.
 

shortdawg

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FYI, Sonny semen is going for around $ 650, Trump around a $ 1000, Rodeo Drive ( 1987 bull ) around $300, and some of the higher semen sold this year was CF Solution @ $ 1400. I would think that Red Knight would be worth some $$$. A lot of sellers are packaging semen in quantities of two just for those looking to flush with it.
 

knabe

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find someone that had experience on using him on angus and what worked and what didn't.  buy the rights to a flush of such a cow, or purchase one like at rowe's sale.  pick one heifer out, on her second calf, flush her to him again, repeat.  should take 6 years or so.  this will downsize his frame.  test cross the bull on 30 of his own heifers for recessives.  then take one of the bulls and sell semen as the new heatwave.

or let someone else do it.

alternatively, see request on 5 best fullbloods and buy one of those and do above or let someone else do it.
 

DLD

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I sold 5 straws of Red Knight for $350 apiece a couple of years ago. I did alot of calling around and checking before I turned loose of it and the consensus among the other semen distributors and breeders I talked to was that this was a fair price. I too, was afraid to price it - that figure was an offer the buyer made to me.

I'd say it's certainly worth something extra if you sell it, but my theory is if you have a mating in mind you want to use it for, and you feel comfortable using it at the price you gave for it, then use it. If you don't have a place you think it'll work for you, or you'd rather have the cash, sell it. If you can find another breeder that's interested in it, and they have something you want (semen, embryos, cattle, equipment, whatever...), old semen is a great bargaining chip.
 

aj

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Stay away from sale managers for advice. They are promoters(cattle traders) not cattle breeders. Just kidding ;D
 
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