more linebreeding and the story of Erica 843 (Kaptain Midnight)

[knabe]

found this on another website

http://linebrederica.com/  the source of all those erica named cows.

interesting comment

"our research shows that these cows had an exceptionally high butter-fat content in their milk as well".
at what size does size interfere with the capacity to make x pounds of butter fat from x pounds of input?

is this just a marketing gimmick to advertise lowline angus and redefine efficiency?

 

[sjcattleco]

NO this is not a marketing gimmik!!!


I just learned a bunch about that today!!! The more moderate frame cattle have that ability... Look at Jersey and Guernsey cows... High butterfat smaller frame score...You can tell a bull's ability to sire cattle that will be high butter fat / high quality carcass by inspection of his tail!!!! 

 

[knabe]

..... inspection of his tail!!!!     tail head hairs?

 

[red]

OK Scott, explain the tail head to us! I understand about the forehead swirls but have never heard about tailheads!

Red (clapping)

 

[sjcattleco]

its not the tail head

its the end of the tail..the last 3-4 inches will tell you alot... If you part the hair and look at the skin you will be able to tell what kind of bull you have.... if the skin is smooth and shiney the bull is crap....If the skin is scaley rough,dull on black cattle yellowish on white or red cattle the bull has  high marbling capabilities and fine textured meat... and the ability to transmit this to his offspring.

 

[shorthorns r us]

not questioning the information but i gotta know where you got that and what evidence is available.

 

[sjcattleco]

Came directly from Gearld Fry

everything that man has taught me is completely true.  Not almost and not most of the time..All the time...

 

[shorthorns r us]

that is very interesting.  does it apply to cows?  i'd like to be able to test that!

 

[sjcattleco]

Cows do display in but in a different way.. Hair patterns on rear and around the udder are indicators..... it also follows the pattern of linear measurement... its a snowball effect if your cows will linear measure with a good enough score then the other benefits will come ..

 

[knabe]

if this scaliness is easily scorable, it could be linked or a consequence of one of the actual  tenderness and marbling genes.  is this in steers as well? I can think of at least two breeders who could test that theory VERY easily in Maines, one of them dispersing obviously.  though neither one has published marbling data, only tenderness data. 

as a joke, my double bred doc olena mare (HERDA suspect) has  a scaly tail.  i wonder if she'd be good eating.  on that note, horses are just about ready to be classified as pets instead of livestock to not allow them to be used for eating, and take away CHOICE.  next comes laws stoppping shipping the horses to canada and mexico to their slaughter plants.  what's more inhumane, shipping the horses hundreds of miles in single decker trucks, once across the border in double deckers, where they are killed by a knife to the neck, or local slaughter, or putting them in the ground with a euthansia shot which causes environmental problems in groundwater.  oops off topic from the tail head.  sorry, pending legislation.

 

[red]

Knabe- it wouldn't be you if you didn't go off the topic just a little!  (clapping)

Very interesting on the tail information. I can just see me running around looking at my cattle's tails. They already think I'm ready for the looney bin here!

Red

 

[sjcattleco]

Knabe- it wouldn't be you if you didn't go off the topic just a little!  (clapping)

Very interesting on the tail information. I can just see me running around looking at my cattle's tails. They already think I'm ready for the looney bin here!

Red

I just ordered a book called THE MILCH COW... I guess milch is french for milk.... anyway  this book goes deeper in to more details about this kind of thing.. looking foreward to reading it...

According to Gearld  a cow has the ability to tell you anything you want to know if you know what to look for and how to read the signs...

 

[knabe]

sacred texts regarding the milch cow

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv03055.htm
13 Loud hath she lowed, licking the other's youngling. On what world hath the Milch-cow laid her udder?
This Ila streameth with the milk of Order. Great is the Gods' supreme and sole dominion.
16 Let the milch-kine that have no calves storm downward, yielding rich nectar, streaming, unexhausted,
These who are ever new and fresh and youthful. Great is the Gods' supreme and sole dominion.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv04001.htm
6 Excellent is the glance, of brightest splendour, which the auspicious God bestows on mortals-
The God's glance, longed-for even as the butter, pure, heated, of the cow, the milch-cow's bounty.
13 Here did our human fathers take their places, fain to fulfil the sacred Law of worship.
Forth drave they, with loud call, Dawn's teeming Milch-kine bid in the mountainstable, in the cavern.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lWtxjt3sQg    link trying to be funny about a famous cartoon of everyone makeing money but the farmer

 

[Ozraptor]

Hi folks

re: is this just a marketing gimmick to advertise lowline angus and redefine efficiency? http://linebrederica.com/midnight.html


I do the website for the Erica Breeders Network and I can say for certain it is a marketing gimmick because I thought it.  It seemed like a good idea at the time 

However, it is neither to advertise Lowlines nor redefine efficiency.  I don't know anything about cattle per se, but I think, in terms of what Greg Rhodes is saying, is that milk production is the key to efficiency of the cow-calf unit.  ie. how efficeintly does a cow convert grass into milk into meat on the vealer/weaner.  I think the definition of efficiency in this context is quite clear - the ratio of output to input.

regards

Jack

 

[ELBEE]

Jack, ole buddy, your more of a Cowboy than you think. I'd like to here about some more of your observations?

Sincerely,
Lee

 

[knabe]

These comments are awesome.

I think the definition of efficiency in this context is quite clear - the ratio of output to input.
milk production is the key to efficiency of the cow-calf unit.
how efficeintly does a cow convert grass into milk into meat on the vealer/weaner.
"our research shows that these cows had an exceptionally high butter-fat content in their milk as well".

I still have these questions

does increased butterfat, with the same volume of milk translate into more pounds, and if so, does any beef breeder test for this? 
does a cow need a larger udder with more production and less butterfat to get the same pounds?

the below post offers some information regarding the weigh-suckle-weigh approach to evaluate maternal weaning weight and includes the following excerpt.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/Publications.htm?seq_no_115=140488

"one-pound increase in the milk EPD was associated with a 24-pound increase in milk production per lactation. Breeders are advised maximum milk production may not be optimal. Too little milk may compromise growth of the calf. Too much milk may unnecessarily increase feed costs or compromise reductive efficiency of the cowherd."

 

[Ozraptor]

I still have these questions

Hi knabe (it helps if you read the second page sometimes   I can't really answer your questions as it is beyond my ken.  I shall, however, pass your questions on to Greg - he has over 50 years experience and I can barely tell the front from the back ;-)

Will get back to you soon

regards

Jack

 

[TJ]

I still have these questions

Hi knabe (it helps if you read the second page sometimes   I can't really answer your questions as it is beyond my ken.  I shall, however, pass your questions on to Greg - he has over 50 years experience and I can barely tell the front from the back ;-)

Will get back to you soon

regards

Jack

1st time poster here. 

Jack, I'm curious about those questions as well.  But, I am even more shocked to see the name "Kaptian Midnight" on Steer Planet!    FYI, I am raising a few Lowlines, both fullbloods & F1's.  One of the bulls that I purchased this spring is out of a daughter of Bell Brae Boris (a Kaptain Midnight son).  Even more than that, his sire is a son of Trangie M432 "Knight Crawler" (the sire of Kaptain Midnight).  I purchased him partially because so many of the animals in his pedigree tested for all 6 stars for tenderness (USA test) according to GeneStar.  I haven't GeneStar tested this little guy for tenderness yet, but I am confident that he is going to test very well.  Since he obviously traces back to Erica several times on both sides of his pedigree, it almost proves the theory that one of Erica's strong points was tender meat.  Maybe if this Erica thing takes off, my little bull might become more valuable... 

sjcattle...  you posted some very interesting info in this thread as well!  I am going to start examining my bulls tails & then compare it to the GeneStar test results.
BTW, my dad raises a "moderate framed" breed that produces a high butterfat content in their milk & he has also been taking some of the linear measurements on all of his bulls for the last several years, so I found your comments about linear measurment interesting.

WOW!!  Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I would see a thread like this one posted on a "Steer" message board, but I won't complain!  I actually enjoyed reading this thread & I appreciate everyones input!! 
TJ



           

 

[red]

(welcome)  TJ!

Glad you found some interesting things here for you!
We try to be a well rounded board w/ a little of something for everyone!
any additions you can give to the topic would be great!

Red