My thoughts on the bickering!

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j3cattleco

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First and foremost as some point everyone raising, milking, selling, or butchering cattle must realize we are on the same team.  Now I realize this feud has been going on since way before our time with ranchers arguing over territories and as recently as R-calf followers fighting the check off, but at some point we must stop the infighting.  We have enough enemies as it is, whether we are talking about HSUS, PETA, the EPA or any other group that is trying to erode our abilities to maintain the lifestyle and heritage we have grown to love.  Now this doesn’t mean we always have to agree, but at some point we have to understand that we need to be spending every bit of energy we can either producing a better product for our consumers or telling our story not bickering over who’s cattle are better.  

Secondly no one type of cattle is better than any other type, they are just different, period.  I have the unique vantage point as living in the desert southwest, where pairs are ran to the section rather than acre.  Our farm is in the middle of wheat country in Northern Oklahoma, where running stockers is a part of life.  My in-laws’ live in the middle of prime corn country in South Eastern South Dakota, where cattle are bigger and ran on much smaller tracts of land.  Now to be profitable this takes three very different types of cattle on these three very different terrains.  How can anyone at anytime say which is better, they can’t, they are just different.  Every person needs to run whichever type of cow makes him the MOST MONEY PERIOD!  This only strengthens the entire industry.  Instead of complaing let's applaud those successful enough to be cosnidered leaders.  Even we don't choose to breed our cattle that way.  We can’t worry about which type our neighbor is running when we need to be focusing on preserving our heritage for future generations.  If we sit all day if the coffee shop and continue to complain about the type of cattle winning in the showring instead of tending to our business then at some point it won’t be our business to worry about.  So can we please continue the discussion about which cattle we prefer, but leave out the discussion about which cattle are better.  That answer doesn’t exist!


Joshua Ramsey
 

mark tenenbaum

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Me too-only I dont take all this that seriously-other than a very bad incident where i got ganged up on-and lost $30000 and rescued starving cattle at a time when I didnt have money for food.Other than that-go to any yuppie suburb and realise how lucky you are not to end up like those wining helpless poseurs. Best thread in awhile was the blond joke-JMO
 

Bradenh

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Central Texas
j3cattleco said:
First and foremost as some point everyone raising, milking, selling, or butchering cattle must realize we are on the same team.  Now I realize this feud has been going on since way before our time with ranchers arguing over territories and as recently as R-calf followers fighting the check off, but at some point we must stop the infighting.  We have enough enemies as it is, whether we are talking about HSUS, PETA, the EPA or any other group that is trying to erode our abilities to maintain the lifestyle and heritage we have grown to love.  Now this doesn’t mean we always have to agree, but at some point we have to understand that we need to be spending every bit of energy we can either producing a better product for our consumers or telling our story not bickering over who’s cattle are better. 

Secondly no one type of cattle is better than any other type, they are just different, period.  I have the unique vantage point as living in the desert southwest, where pairs are ran to the section rather than acre.  Our farm is in the middle of wheat country in Northern Oklahoma, where running stockers is a part of life.  My in-laws’ live in the middle of prime corn country in South Eastern South Dakota, where cattle are bigger and ran on much smaller tracts of land.  Now to be profitable this takes three very different types of cattle on these three very different terrains.  How can anyone at anytime say which is better, they can’t, they are just different.  Every person needs to run whichever type of cow makes him the MOST MONEY PERIOD!  This only strengthens the entire industry.  Instead of complaing let's applaud those successful enough to be cosnidered leaders.  Even we don't choose to breed our cattle that way.  We can’t worry about which type our neighbor is running when we need to be focusing on preserving our heritage for future generations.  If we sit all day if the coffee shop and continue to complain about the type of cattle winning in the showring instead of tending to our business then at some point it won’t be our business to worry about.  So can we please continue the discussion about which cattle we prefer, but leave out the discussion about which cattle are better.  That answer doesn’t exist!


Joshua Ramsey
I have no idea how long it took you to type all of that, but you are exactly right in everything you said. Everybody can dissagree but when shit hits the fan we all have to band together and stand for the common cause we all have
 

LittleHeifer

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Mar 24, 2009
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210
very diplomatically stated. We are getting to the point, well we ARE at the point where so many want to run us out so they can "better" the world, what they dont realise is they need us if they want to eat and live. We need to band together to improve and show those that want to run us out just how much they need us.
Little Heifer
 

ALTSIMMY 79

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Spring Creek , Iowa
Good post , lots of good points brought up . But the comment about running what makes the most money I have a problem with that part ! That's not what its all about , there's a lot more pride involved raising defect free cattle than there is dirty genetics . That is the bottom line , doesn't matter what color or breed , that's all personal preference . Look up defect in the dictionary and tell me if pride is listed anywhere ! Money isn't everything !
 

j3cattleco

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Alamogordo NM
ALTSIMMY 79 said:
Good post , lots of good points brought up . But the comment about running what makes the most money I have a problem with that part ! That's not what its all about , there's a lot more pride involved raising defect free cattle than there is dirty genetics . That is the bottom line , doesn't matter what color or breed , that's all personal preference . Look up defect in the dictionary and tell me if pride is listed anywhere ! Money isn't everything !

No offense but you just made my point.  I never said money was everything.  What I am tired of is people complaining or talking bad about other programs because they are successful.  To the defect free part, some might take more pride in raising cattle that have blue eyes or cattle that consistently wean the heaviest of there contempories.  Either way they are economic traits no different than yearling weights or calving ease direct.  I would say that a bull that consistently throws bwts over 100lbs to carry a genetic defect but I doubt you would carry as much wrath at that defect.  Everyone needs to breed the cattle that they have a market for.  Like I said earlier we don't have to like they're cattle, but we need to respect that we are on the same team.

Joshua
 

VJ

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Two points I think need to be made. Mind your own business and the show cattle industry is not the commercial cattle industry. There seems to be many people in this world that think they are the "standard" and if you are not breeding to their standard you are wrong. Run your business how you like and let it go if you don't agree with the way others are running their business. Show cattle are bred for a purpose just like race cars are made for a purpose. Neither one's goal is widespread commercial success.
 

ALTSIMMY 79

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Ha , the previous talk about peta and those type of organizations in the above post is kinda like putting your own boot in your mouth ! The videos of the genetic defects on youtube , now that there is really great publicity for the cattle business. I bet the anti's really loved that . Not a very good deal at all .
 

cowz

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I am not trying to be judgemental.....maybe just getting on my soapbox for a minute.

Sometimes in this lifetime.....it just gets too complicated.  Life is so simple.  Just live for what you believe in.  We each and every one of us has a different take on what we like, love and what makes us tick.

If you hate the club calf industry or the pedigree cattle industry:  Dont go to shows or fairs or sales.  Dont waste your time bad mouthing them publicly.....its makes you the lesser person in the end. <deadhorse>

Go your own way.  There are hundreds of thousands of commercial cattlemen out here with great common sense programs.  With the wonderful invention of the internet, it is possible to find those like minded folks.  Find them and develop a relationship.

If you hate a certain breeder, the most effective thing you can do is to not give them any of your money in the form of semen or calf sales.  If others find a reason to do the same, this person will figure it out.

Are there some people out there that are despicable creatures?  Hell yes!    But that is what parking lot talk is for....not here! (argue)

Love ya all!  Have a great frosty day  where ever you are.    And for our southern friends who are over 60 degrees today.....I just dont wanna hear it! <beer>
 

j3cattleco

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Alamogordo NM
Where did I say genetic defects are a good?  How did I put my foot in my mouth?  I just said there are some traits that are considered negative besides just some recessive traits such as TH and PHA.  In our country too much milk will kill reproductive effiency.  We can't have cows with more than a +15 for milk.  We just need to understand that no cow or program is perfect for every producer.  The problem lies when we spend more time sitting on our high horse berating someone else's cattle instead of promoting our industry.  You don't have to agree with me but you must realize for the sake of the industry, WE MUST see ourselves on the same team.  

Joshua

By the way its 75 outside right now.
 

ALTSIMMY 79

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I happen to love show cattle , pubred cattle , crossbred cattle , red black and some white cattle ! But the bottom line is the continued use of genetic defect carriers all the time , and then someone posting the calf results of that type of breeding on youtube is doing nothing good for the cattle industry period ... Have to be foolish to think otherwise , its kinda like giving the anti's a freebie . Ridiculous .
 

ALTSIMMY 79

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Lol , I haved stayed completely out of any of these discussions so far , but couldn't take it any longer . I know it doesn't happen that often but the results of the defects are pretty disgusting to me when all goes bad . Not picking on any one type of cattle in general but its doing none of us any good , too much of an animal lover to purposely use those genetics for the chance at some extra dollars . We are all so worried about our images , now ask yourselves , what does that do for our image ? Can't deny the answer to that in any way .
 

Mueller Show Cattle

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The bottom line is some people are comparing apples to oranges. You have your cattle breeders and your show cattle breeders. My family does both but I do only breeding for show cattle. Yes if I was raising strictly cattle in numbers for beef production, I would not use cattle with genetic defecs, PHA and TH. Sorry but in the show ring most propely carry one of those defects. Yes I look at them when I pick an AI bull to breed my cows with nowing if my cows are carriers. But most of my cows are not carriers, so I don't have a problem breeding them to a AI bull that is a carrier. I breed to win in the showring, period! As far as different cattle breeds, it is what you want and like. You know, I never use to be a Charolais breed but know I have a heifer that is from milkman, so it is a smoke colored heifer and I love it and I think it will be a great mother and produce great club calfs. I don't bad mouth any breeds and cross breeds are winning the showring so you will get some spreading of defects. Your top club calf bulls are carriers of either PHA or TH, you are not going to stop people using those bulls including me. I would say that most of you show winners were breed by bulls that are carriers. You just watch what you are breeding them to if they are carriers also.
 

j3cattleco

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The result of any breeding that goes wrong is a bad thing.  I worked on a commercial hog farm and we had hogs born with defects that were the result of nothing other than just missed chromosomes.  Does that mean we should quit breeding hogs completely?  Unfortunately you are missing my point about us all being on the same team.  I just wont throw you under the bus, like you are trying to do to alot of others.

Joshua
 

ALTSIMMY 79

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Ahhh nobody needs to be thrown under anything. Its just hard to hear the preaching about being on the same team when certain critters and their breeding are creating the vidoes that have surfaced on youtube . Its those genetics that are in part fueling the anti fire . Just pretty hard to agree with , I won't stir the pot anymore on this dicussion .
 

mark tenenbaum

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I dont see j 3 being self rightious or pompous at all. And he shouldnt have to explain or atone for his posistion. I probably am not the least verbose on here in terms of my opinion. And I like all kinds of cattle that are GOOD.And I also think THAT THE CLEAN CATTLE that have come out of the CArriers are gonna be important-CUZ SOME OF THEM ARE DAM GOOD, If I was J3-Id keep breeding or flushing till I got a clean version of his avatar bull. And Id use  his  bull on a clean-one,cuz a clean caf that looks like that is a step way forward. And the cattle from J-3s  part of the world really have to work to maintain-in the genes.O0
 
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