National ID Program

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ZNT

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Where is this at now?  I haven't heard much about it lately.  Do we have any kind of deadline looming?
 

red

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I thought they have put it on hold as of right now. Each individual state has their own prgram but it is voluntary I believe.

Red
 

cowz

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Here is the National site    http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml

It seems that the 2009 deadline is no longer strongly emphasised.  Bureaucrats.....please make up your minds and stick with it guys!! (lol)
 

knabe

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our local livestock market uses it and was an early adopter.  they claim those that use it see an advantage.  my feeling is that the better producers are using it, and have better cattle, better practices etc.  kinda like epd's.

i'm more of a freemarket guy.  lots of local producers sell direct, and don't require usda inspection on their meat products including chicken.  their "guarantee", since the product is mostly hormone free, extended stay on grass, minimal feedlot time.  others sell direct to walmart etc. if you don't like their product, you don't go back.  if there is a profit in it, let that be the determining factor for adoption, rather than another government program.  oh i forgot, insert fox guarding the henhouse analogy here.  oh i guess jurors who award excessive punitive sums will be the deciding factor in the end.  musssssssssssssstttttttttttttttttt  sssssssssssssssuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, it's so much easier.  after we supposedly eliminate BSE by not feeding brains to cattle (oversimplification) and the vector is gone, what is the return on investment of a program to track something that is eliminated.  what's next after BSE, E. coli of course.  that test is relatively easy to do, but getting rid of it?  if we just have id, that will do it.  two local reps, both democrats, have pushed hard for research on E. coli.  others like fabian nunez, pining for governor since he's term limited, is out for blood.  less than 100 people die every year from E. coli poisoning that is reported.  50,000 per year from car accidents.        must eliminate cars.

where's my soapbox icon?


quote from link at bottom

He said McDonald’s, Wal-Mart and other food companies are now paying premiums for source-verified cattle, which are traceable back to the farm of origin, and cattle marketed under a quality systems assessment (QSA) program.

The 101 Livestock Market is the first livestock sale barn in the country to develop a USDA-approved QSA program.

http://www.supportiowasfarmers.org/fullarticle.aspx?artid=1103
 

chambero

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We sell our commercial calf crop as source-verified beef, but we don't use the EID systems yet.  We did file for our Premesis ID number last year though.  I know our state show steer validation program uses the EID tags now.
 

chambero

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I hate to admit it, but Wal-Mart's beef is often better than our local grocery store's.

I imagine most of cattle that find their way to McDonalds are so worn out that most might not have any ears left to hang the tags from.  Taco Bell is apparently even worse. I've got a friend that used to work at one of the plants in the Texas Panhandle.  McDonalds bought their really bad stuff, Taco Bell bought what was too bad for McDonalds.
 

red

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Gee thanks Chambero! I just ate at the Bell Sunday! You know how the meat is always really ground up fine, gives me the willys!
Now Gary bob can probably give you horror stories about the chicken biz. Of course you may never eat chickens again!
Krogers out here usually has some good meat. Of course the best is homegrown but sometimes w/ just 2 of us we just can't go through a beef even a quarter that fast.
Old memory. We used to do our own butchering ourselves when the in-laws were still alive. Killed the steer, hung it, the guys cut it up & we women wrapped it. Very time consuming but you got the exact cuts you wanted in the exact size. Alos you got the right animal. Anybody else ever take a steer to a butcher only to get it back & you just swore it wasn't the one you took in? When we had Jersey's you need what it was by the yellow fat. would get the meat back & no yellow fat. Sure give away we got yours swapped w/ someone elses!

Red
 

knabe

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ha ha ha ha, awesome ELBEE.  walmart already is, China.  ruined alva, ok.

a salesman came to work the other day. he said he was from the south somewhere.  said his dad invented the mechanical device used to debone chicken for mcnuggets.  also "invented" other equipment similar to below.


http://www.ifilm.com/video/2780266
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRwNJxk8LrQ
 

garybob

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First, let me say BSE isn't why we need National ID. It's IBR, BVD, and any other reproductive and respiratory disease that causes economic loss. If you've ever had a neighbor that bought a load of Florida heifers, and put 'em in the pasture across the fence from your herd, you'd better worry. Those swamp cattle ( no offense, Shortdawg) carry strains not included in the major-label vaccines. Take a 3-yr old 3-weight, deworm her, put her on grass (even Fescue), and give her a little feed. She'll cycle, and, since the little harlot is headed for the Feedyard in Kansas, the Stocker Operator Neighbor isn't going to vaccinate her, either. He'll let someone else take the losses for "pulls" to the sick pen. Go to check your cows one day, and, darn it! WHERE'S That Bull? He'll come home with a nice case of who-knows-what. You'll have open cows and stillbirths, and sick calves for years afterward.

Yes, I do vaccinate, but, ther's so many strains of BVD.

 

Gypsy

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red said:
Gee thanks Chambero! I just ate at the Bell Sunday! You know how the meat is always really ground up fine, gives me the willys!
Now Gary bob can probably give you horror stories about the chicken biz. Of course you may never eat chickens again!
Krogers out here usually has some good meat. Of course the best is homegrown but sometimes w/ just 2 of us we just can't go through a beef even a quarter that fast.
Old memory. We used to do our own butchering ourselves when the in-laws were still alive. Killed the steer, hung it, the guys cut it up & we women wrapped it. Very time consuming but you got the exact cuts you wanted in the exact size. Alos you got the right animal. Anybody else ever take a steer to a butcher only to get it back & you just swore it wasn't the one you took in? When we had Jersey's you need what it was by the yellow fat. would get the meat back & no yellow fat. Sure give away we got yours swapped w/ someone elses!

Red
Red about the butcher:  I once took a home grown Maine steer in to the killer then the butcher picked it up for processing.  I take 2-4 steers in a year and ALWAYS go to the butcher shop while the meat is hanging to check and make sure that it is my beef and not someone else's.  This particular time I went to check was about the 8th? steer I'd taken to this place with no problems til then, but this time I looked at the beef and saw that it was NOT mine.  "I told the butcher -  this is NOT my beef.  This is a charlois steer".  He looked at me like "lady you are so full of it", but went to double check the tags.  When he came back before he could say anything I had already found my beef among the 50 or so sides and pointed it out to him.  He confirmed what I had just told him.  Then he said "okay, I give up, I know that you can tell your beef, but how in the world did you know that the other beef was a Charlois?"  I laughed and told him it had gone to the killer the same time as mine - plus I recognized him from the fair. :D
 

DL

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Well as most of you know we in MI have a TB problem - probably other states do to but if you don't test you don't find a problem!

In MI the bovine TB comes from white tailed deer - it is now known that the bug survives on feed - congregation increases spread - feeding and baiting of deer in the hunt club area of northern Mi is in large part the culprit (I can tell the whole sordid story if anyone is interested)

Anyhow, we have had premise ID for about a decade and a requirement for official identification about the same amount of time. All herds in the state (cattle, bison, goats and captive cervids, pc called privately owned cervids) were required to have a whole herd TB test. Then depending on where you are in the state there are different requirements - the "TB zone" - northern lower MI requires annual tests and other things and is classified by USDA as Modified Accredited. Southern lower peninsula has random whole herd surveillance and is classified as Modified Accredited Advanced. The UP is classified as TB free. The only way we could get official split state status was a combo of testing, surveillance and ID.

As of March 1 2007 all MI  cattle leaving the farm of origin and all out of state cattle purchased or shown in MI  are required to have RFID. The biggest resistance has come from the people with 5 head, the Amish, and individuals with no cattle who think RFID will allow the gov't to track the movement of their dogs, children, wandering spouses and poultry.

Hopefully, the testing and the RFID will allow the lower part of the state to become TB free - then we wouldn't have to test our cattle to go out of state (except for states like Illinois who refused to honor the USDA designation....but that is another story based on the politics not the science ot bovine TB)

RFID and premise ID etc have become just part of doing business for us....
(cow) (cow) (cow)
 

genes

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chambero said:
I hate to admit it, but Wal-Mart's beef is often better than our local grocery store's.

I imagine most of cattle that find their way to McDonalds are so worn out that most might not have any ears left to hang the tags from.  Taco Bell is apparently even worse. I've got a friend that used to work at one of the plants in the Texas Panhandle.  McDonalds bought their really bad stuff, Taco Bell bought what was too bad for McDonalds.

Yup they sort trim at the packers by fat percentage.  Taco Bell getting the 70/30 box ..... and I don't mean 70 meat.  I'll give them that a lot will melt out because they don't use patties, but no wonder it's so finely ground.  Not like I ate taco bell before, but now  :-\


Anyway, we've had national ID up here for a few years now.  I think it is good insurance, and I don't really mean for one disease in particular, because you never know what might all of a sudden become a problem.    I can also see it having uses in marketing in the future, with branded beef and niche markets becoming a bigger deal, you could sign onto some program and reap the benefits without having to keep your cattle right to slaughter.

The biggest pain for us is tag loss.  We used to use one piece Z tags and had very little loss.  Now we have to use 2 pieces, and we lose more. 
 

DL

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genes said:
chambero said:
I hate to admit it, but Wal-Mart's beef is often better than our local grocery store's.

I imagine most of cattle that find their way to McDonalds are so worn out that most might not have any ears left to hang the tags from.  Taco Bell is apparently even worse. I've got a friend that used to work at one of the plants in the Texas Panhandle.  McDonalds bought their really bad stuff, Taco Bell bought what was too bad for McDonalds.

Yup they sort trim at the packers by fat percentage.  Taco Bell getting the 70/30 box ..... and I don't mean 70 meat.  I'll give them that a lot will melt out because they don't use patties, but no wonder it's so finely ground.  Not like I ate taco bell before, but now  :-\

genes - what do you pay for your tags? are they the bangles with RFID (which is mostly what I have seen in Canadian cows) or do you use the button tags? Are you done with finals? Did you see the Sabres ralley?? I tried to get Vancouver to win, but it didn't work!  ;D


Anyway, we've had national ID up here for a few years now.  I think it is good insurance, and I don't really mean for one disease in particular, because you never know what might all of a sudden become a problem.    I can also see it having uses in marketing in the future, with branded beef and niche markets becoming a bigger deal, you could sign onto some program and reap the benefits without having to keep your cattle right to slaughter.

The biggest pain for us is tag loss.  We used to use one piece Z tags and had very little loss.  Now we have to use 2 pieces, and we lose more. 
 

genes

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We just buy our tags at basically the same places that we always have, the stores are authorized or whatever.  They take one copy of the packages barcode and then enter your info with it, or something like that.  I'm not sure of the exact procedure, but basically, that bag of tags gets registered to you.  When the program started it was with the dangle tags that had the barcode on them, but a couple of years ago they switched to the RFID buttons. 
 

mommacow

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Here in CO to show at state fair we have to have a #.  The thing that stinks is we have to also have tags and I can not get an answer on where we get them.
 

knabe

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any thoughts on the id program and problems with bison, deer, and elk herds and that the government only has to say they're probably not a problem and can hold themselves to a different standard?

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2007/05/19/news/state/20-brucellosis.txt
 

cowz

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Here's an interesting snippet from the Western Livestock Journal:

MAJORITY OF PRODUCERS DO NOT TAKE STAND ON NATIONAL ID—A survey conducted by Kansas State University (KSU) has shown that the majority of cow/calf producers do not have a definitive opinion regarding the national animal identification system. KSU surveyed over 500 cow/calf producers in 41 states. It's interesting because it is perceived in the cattle industry that the majority of cattle producers in the U.S. are opposed to Animal ID but this study was unable to prove that.
 

DL

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mommacow said:
Here in CO to show at state fair we have to have a #.  The thing that stinks is we have to also have tags and I can not get an answer on where we get them.

Contact either Allflex - they should be able to put you in touch with the right people in your area....
 
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