Need Shorthorn advice

[firesweepranch]

Well, seems there is a shorthorn sale very near my place this weekend. Since I do not breed shorthorns, but am not against them, thought I would go up and check them out. Can someone glance at the catalog and tell me any information I should know about pedigrees? We know how to pick a decent heifer, but am unsure of pedigrees that might be a problem. We show Simmi, but my daughter has always admired the shorthorn (almost got into those instead of the Simmi when we got started several years ago). I am not sure how EPD's work either... what is a good number for milk and calving ease?
Thanks in advance. If you want to PM me that is fine.

Here is a url to the on-line catalog:
http://www.shorthorncountry.net/image/Ozark2011/ozark2011.swf
or if you want it in PDF:
http://www.shorthorncountry.net/catalogs.htm and look for the Ozark Shorthorn Association sale.

 

[oakview]

Looks like there is a wide variety of genetics offered.  You might want to stay clear of the lines that could be TH or PHA carriers.  I noticed Shadybrook Centurion and 4D Double Vision in glancing quickly through the catalog that were TH carriers.  Many people now test for these defects.  If you're concerned about it, ask the consignors.  The two consignors I know best would be Bernie Bolton, Bern-a-Dale Shorthorns, and Garris Preheim.  I think you could be comfortable asking either one of them questions you might have about their cattle or others.  I think most of the consignors would provide useful information, I just know Bernie and Garris the best.

 

[garybob]

Paul Bridwell, Stanley Stanton, Brian Banzet, and Jerry Cox have the most maternal and/or production-oriented cattle in the sale. Always have. None of these affore-mentioned folks pamper their cows, either.

This is a testimonial from someone who has actually used their breeding in "fescue country". Paul's Waukauru-bred bull "Vannguard" is flat-out awesome. You ought to run over to Brighton and see him.

GB

 

[garybob]

Paul Bridwell, Stanley Stanton, Brian Banzet, and Jerry Cox have the most maternal and/or production-oriented cattle in the sale. Always have. None of these affore-mentioned folks pamper their cows, either.

This is a testimonial from someone who has actually used their breeding in "fescue country". Paul's Waukauru-bred bull "Vannguard" is flat-out awesome. You ought to run over to Brighton and see him.

GB

Forgot to mention, these are all honest people who would go out of their way to assist you.

GB

 

[kfacres]

Here's about all you need to know.., within a 5 generation pedigree, within the Shorthorn breed...  You will find...:

90% of Shorthorns trace to Trump
50% of Shorthorns are either JPJ offspring, or grand offspring.
Prob just under 50% of Shorthorns trace to Double Stuff, or D. Vision (his son)
I would say of the remaning Shorthorns who do not fall into the above (and quite a few who do)- have Vortec in there

There is getting more and more Candian influenced Shorthorns out there. 

As well as more "outcross" genetics like Austrailia, or a whole slew of other people who think alike, and use pretty well the same genetics anyways.  These will be your more "real" world type cattle- which 90% of the time will be solid red in color.  I did not look at the sale catalog that you posted.. but would guess that these genetics will not be in it. 

I would guess that over 1/2 of the Shorthorns out there have a TH or PHA carrier within a 5 generation pedigree

Shorthorn Plus, partic the Durham Red deals.. are quite popular as well. 

Anyone want to argue?

 

[feeder duck]

Here's about all you need to know.., within a 5 generation pedigree, within the Shorthorn breed...  You will find...:

90% of Shorthorns trace to Trump
50% of Shorthorns are either JPJ offspring, or grand offspring.
Prob just under 50% of Shorthorns trace to Double Stuff, or D. Vision (his son)
I would say of the remaning Shorthorns who do not fall into the above (and quite a few who do)- have Vortec in there

There is getting more and more Candian influenced Shorthorns out there. 

As well as more "outcross" genetics like Austrailia, or a whole slew of other people who think alike, and use pretty well the same genetics anyways.  These will be your more "real" world type cattle- which 90% of the time will be solid red in color.  I did not look at the sale catalog that you posted.. but would guess that these genetics will not be in it. 

I would guess that over 1/2 of the Shorthorns out there have a TH or PHA carrier within a 5 generation pedigree

Shorthorn Plus, partic the Durham Red deals.. are quite popular as well. 

Anyone want to argue?

Stop by my place I'll bet I fit the 10%,50% and 50% that are not. NO TRUMP, NO JPJ ( as of yet). One D.stuff cow. Lots of Dividend,Dividends Impact,Steermaker.
Dare to be different.

 

[kfacres]

Here's about all you need to know.., within a 5 generation pedigree, within the Shorthorn breed...  You will find...:



As well as more "outcross" genetics like Austrailia, or a whole slew of other people who think alike, and use pretty well the same genetics anyways.  These will be your more "real" world type cattle- which 90% of the time will be solid red in color.  I did not look at the sale catalog that you posted.. but would guess that these genetics will not be in it. 

Stop by my place I'll bet I fit the 10%,50% and 50% that are not. NO TRUMP, NO JPJ ( as of yet). One D.stuff cow. Lots of Dividend,Dividends Impact,Steermaker.
Dare to be different.

yup jeff.. you fall into that category... but you are one in a million, literally.  But you have reduced numbers quite a bit in the last several years...  atleast that's what I heard from a shorthorn guy from around Laf, IN, when I visited with him.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

If they test clean-they ARE clean-most important after that is the phenotype you like. If you raise Simmis-you are gonna want THICK SHORTHORNS-even if one is TH-you can breed em to a good clean bull-and get a clean calf-I dont think something that is 5 generations from Double Stuff is a threat-I owned the 2004 National calf champ bull till he was stolen from me-Abertees Awesome-he WAS A SON of D-stuff,and CLEAN. Rockn Roll train is out of his full sisterAbertees My Obsession-and sired by  a DOUBLE bred Double Stuff (Abertees Professor)-and hes Double Clean.YAtta Yatta O0

 

[kfacres]

If they test clean-they ARE clean-most important after that is the phenotype you like. If you raise Simmis-you are gonna want THICK SHORTHORNS-even if one is TH-you can breed em to a good clean bull-and get a clean calf-I dont think something that is 5 generations from Double Stuff is a threat-I owned the 2004 National calf champ bull till he was stolen from me-Abertees Awesome-he WAS A SON of D-stuff,and CLEAN. Rockn Roll train is out of his full sisterAbertees My Obsession-and sired by  a DOUBLE bred Double Stuff (Abertees Professor)-and hes Double Clean.YAtta Yatta O0

if they actually test clean.. and aren't "should be clean".  and if the test is accurate..  I've seen several tests come back wrong from human error.

I have a DS grandson, who's double clean right now.. and he'll be the sweatest deal to come around in a long time.   

 

[peachy]

I would go by phenotype.  ;D

 

[CWshorthorns]

We go to that sale every year and have bought sevral cows and hiefers from there. The poeple are as above said very friendly and paul bridwell i know on a personal level will by far go out of his way to help you any way possible. He along with many of the others. Paul will tell u straight and if he is selling it at the sale it will raise a good calf and and breed back and have a calf. We had our first off road calf to a cow that we got as a heifer sevral years back from paul.

 

[oakview]

Plenty of personal bias in some of the replies.  If you want a show heifer, I would still recommend picking out the heifer you like, and think you can afford.  It sounds like you know what you are looking for as far as type.  I am assuming from your post that you know little or nothing about pedigrees, so I still say ask the consignors if you have questions.  I would ask the consignors if the animal has been TH or PHA tested if they have carriers in their ancestry.  If they have not been tested and you don't want to take a chance, pick a different one.  What works for one person doesn't always work for another.  Since you're the one that will be carrying the feed bucket, pick one YOU like.  As far as EPDs go, it would be difficult to flatly state what numbers are acceptable for birth weight and milk.  There are some accross breeed EPD tables that could provide some assistance.  Some people wouldn't touch an animal with a + in front of the BEPD and others that would accept anything under 4.0 and others that don't care at all.  I personally have had Shorthorns for nearly 50 years and will tell you we have watched the heifers closely for nearly 50 years and I do not remember ever helping a 3 year old or above with calving issues, other than a twin coming butt first.  Generally speaking, Shorthorns would be considered a good milking beef breed.

 

[JTM]

Definitely some interesting replies,  . If  you are looking for a show heifer, the genetics I seen that have been working are Shadybrook Centurion and ALM Chiller. I liked the lot 10 picture for a clubby, have fun, shorthorn show heifer. Like Oakview said, Centurion is a known TH carrier. I am pretty surprised and somewhat dissapointed to see that nothing was mentioned in the catalog on the potential of being TH. I'm of the opinion that if there is a chance, then test them, if they are TH free by parentage, then don't say anything. Obviously this wasn't done in this catalog. Unfortunately, most of the epds in the Shorthorn breed mean nothing. Things are getting better though.