NEED SOME ADVICE ON A BULL

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clubcalve

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I have been looking and I can't find anything on a bull named Warrent the first time I saw him was today on Bovine Elite . He is a Heatwave x 908( Draft Pick x Meyer 734) any info or Pics would be apreaciated. Thanks
 

vet tech

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clubcalve said:
I have been looking and I can't find anything on a bull named Warrent the first time I saw him was today on Bovine Elite . He is a Heatwave x 908( Draft Pick x Meyer 734) any info or Pics would be apreaciated. Thanks
I know that he is a double carrier. (th and pha)
 

farmboy

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http://www.clubcalves.com/wmd/

he is a double carrier if that means anything to you, thats the only reason i wont use him, the calves look clubby and chubby, very nice and hairy.

BTW has anyone seen a good amount of poly graph calves? man he looks good
 

yuppiecowboy

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Polygraph is working. Jerrod Schmitt in Wsc and Hueber own him. On very limited use, there are some big ticket rigs rolling out of him. Word is he wont add bone but they are furry fattys with a better look than HW. I cant tell you what I havent seen, but what I have seen makes him rise above the rest of the  kajillion HW sons out there.

Danners leased him again if that says anything.

His name is funny. I guess about ten people claimed to have raised him, and either Schmitt, hueber, or dunk offered a grand to anyone that could produce blood from a cow that matched Poly. Cory Altena won.
 

BIGTEX

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[/quote]

The same kind of bull that should've been turned into a steer after it was born or put down with a single gun shot, or turned into dog food. 

Bulls like that should not be allowed to reproduce period.   

[/quote]

It must mean he twice as good if he's a double carrier. He probably will through good  hairy show animals if "The Truth" doesn't like him.
 

thats funny

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I dont know why The Truth thinks just Warrent is soo bad....if hes gonna go with the theory that Warrent is soo terrible bacause he has TH and PHA then more than half the clubby bulls out there are terrible and should've been killed or cut at birth. The ones that have TH or PHA have the good calves, but if u breed those bulls to the right cow you can breed around those TH or PHA genes.
 

simtal

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TheTruth said:
zach said:
http://www.clubcalves.com/wmd/

he is a double carrier if that means anything to you, thats the only reason i wont use him, the calves look clubby and chubby, very nice and hairy.

The same kind of bull that should've been turned into a steer after it was born or put down with a single gun shot, or turned into dog food. 

Bulls like that should not be allowed to reproduce period. 

You really have a piss poor attitude, and if people are dumb enough to breed carriers together than thats their problem. 
 

DL

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thats funny said:
I dont know why The Truth thinks just Warrent is soo bad....if hes gonna go with the theory that Warrent is soo terrible bacause he has TH and PHA then more than half the clubby bulls out there are terrible and should've been killed or cut at birth. The ones that have TH or PHA have the good calves, but if u breed those bulls to the right cow you can breed around those TH or PHA genes.

and exactly how, that's funny, would you deal with heifer calves out of your double carriers - breed 'em to another double carrier and pray a lot? :eek: :eek:
 

showsteerdlux

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Although the question wasn't aimed at me I'll say something anyways. No breed them clean which is quite simple. Or another option would be to use them as Market heifers. As bad as PHA and TH they do have good qualities that can be managed very easily with a little common sense. Just my 2 cents worth which ain't worth much.
 

olsun

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Sorry to get on my soap box here, but TH and Pha are a very sore subject with me. I personally don't believe that all commercial cattlemen even know what TH and PHA are. I believe that at some point , clubby breeders will dump some carrier heifers at their local sale barn. Some old farmer might just like their looks and buy them. It is likely that many years later his herd will have carrier decendants of the sale barn heifers. If at any time he buys a carrier bull, he may find himself in needless trouble. I believe that the wise thing to do would be to eliminate carrier animals. If we didn't use them they soon wouldn't be a problem. I like the clubby type show cattle, but I wonder if it is really necessary to continue using bad genetics. Just something to think about.
 

Doc

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TheTruth, To start off with you need to chill out & stop cussing, there are kids on here. We all understand that you are not a showring person, but I'm going to say that the majority of us on here are, to some degree. I respect the fact that you are making it as a commercial Shorthorn breeder, but I can assure that without the recognition that the show ring brings, (with all the kids wanting to show that roan calf), that the ASA would not be able to make payroll. I think that you would have to agree that Barry Jordan is one of the major commercial breeders in our breed , but yet I noticed that he is using a Trump son. The point I'm trying make once again is that there is "show cattle" that can function in the commercial world & vice versa.
I for one don't think the sky is falling on the Shorthorn breed. I'm hearing more & more people passing on cattle that are carriers, especially dble carriers & bulls. I personally have a few carriers in my herd & there is no way I would ship them just because they are a carrier. I think they have to much to offer thru their clean progeny. I'm with showsteerdlux & think that it can be managed & that you don't have to "throw the baby out with bathwater."
 

red

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I think everyone needs to remember that each is entitled to their own opinion.
I have stopped using carrier bulls simply from an econmic stand. At the sales I sell in there is a huge difference between non carrier versus carrier. Plus who wants to spend the extra $'s to have to test everything.

Red
 

Dusty

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From a purebred standpoint I think defects need eliminated from the breeds.  As in you can't register a carrier animal. 

As far as the clubby thing is concerned...anything goes.....
 

showsteerdlux

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TheTruth said:
showsteerdlux said:
Although the question wasn't aimed at me I'll say something anyways. No breed them clean which is quite simple. Or another option would be to use them as Market heifers. As bad as PHA and TH they do have good qualities that can be managed very easily with a little common sense. Just my 2 cents worth which ain't worth much.

No, people need to breed clean genetics.  There is no damn excuse for using TH Carriers, and I'm sick and tired of people who do this for the sake of huge $$$$$

It's no wonder organizations such as PETA want to come after the livestock industry.  Keep gambling folks by breeding TH and PHA carriers and see what happens when these animal rights organizations start coming down even harder on the whole entire cattle industry.

What pisses me off the most is when someone like me tries to sell a good quality Shorthorn cow and somebody tells me, "I don't like Shorthorns because they are a club calf breed and they carry TH". 

That is why I am so damned angry, I'm sick and tired of seeing the Shorthorn breed being ruined, along with many great functional cows being ruined, and the way people take a good functional cow and they waste it's genetics by turning it into a steer producer by breeding and flushing it to a crap bull instead of breeding it to a good quality and proven bull that will produce good quality functional females that are fertile.   I'm sick and tired of commercial shorthorn breeders like myself getting a bad name, because of  irresponsible and greedy show breeders who continue to produce terminal show animals that are nothing more than pieces of crap that carry TH and PHA.   
Well all I can say is that I guess that is the difference in making money in the business today and not making it at all. If you will notice I said management is key to controlling this. Sorry but I'll take a high sale price any day over market price.
Also on the deal of carriers being introduced to other farmers, with as many diseases that go through a stockyard many people don't even buy their replacements through the stockyards anymore anyways so I don't think thats the most valid of excuses to wipe TH and PHA out. Lastly with this is that most respectable breeders now test their bulls and have the results before they offer these cattle for sale. If a cattlemen is worried about it because he doesn't know the background of his cattle then I'd say he could just as easily get a non-carrier.
 

thats funny

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DL said:
thats funny said:
I dont know why The Truth thinks just Warrent is soo bad....if hes gonna go with the theory that Warrent is soo terrible bacause he has TH and PHA then more than half the clubby bulls out there are terrible and should've been killed or cut at birth. The ones that have TH or PHA have the good calves, but if u breed those bulls to the right cow you can breed around those TH or PHA genes.

and exactly how, that's funny, would you deal with heifer calves out of your double carriers - breed 'em to another double carrier and pray a lot? :eek: :eek:
No I said breed those bulls to the right cow....which would prabably mean a clean cow....that u can breed around those genes....those calves arent gonna be double carriers then....and plus I dont know why U would breed a double carrier to a to another double carrier.....thats just stupid.....and if those calves are born carriers u can breed around that again, or just get rid of the calves.
 

knabe

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what a guy could do is flush the living death out of them, screen the embryo's for double carriers or just clone the double carrier steers that look good.

the second scenario is already happening, the first is in the research state, though for other traits, but definately doable, though getting agrigenomics some new business by sending them a couple of cells from an embryo might not be a production line they are willing to set up at this stage.
 

showsteerdlux

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Knabe, Thats the best Idea I have heard yet. the best thing is that it is a positive  thing that could be a money maker for all involved. Thanks Knabe and as always I'm amazed at how far you are ahead in the game as far as ideas go.
 
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