Need some help.........

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CalifAngus

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Feb 25, 2008
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Ok, here it is....

1st question....Right now I am feeding 20bs. a day of Verdemont Show Cattle ration (12% protein) and about 1/2 flake of hay (at night).  Our Black Angus steer weighs 1100 lbs as of today (5/5).  Based on my numbers our steer has gained 2.0lbs a day for the past 58 days.  Should I be feeding more?  I am hoping to finish right around 1200 pounds and I have 70 days till the weigh at Fair.  Any suggestions, comments?

2nd question....We have a Black Angus steer.  All of his hair turned brown.  We have heard there are several reasons for this.  He does not have a mineral block or salt block in his pens.  We shaved off the brown hair since we have 70 days till fair in order to promote growth.  He is an outside steer with plenty of shade.  Is there any chance of getting much hair to grow?  Any really good supplements that might help us.  I know we took a chance but he looks alot better being a short hair Black Angus then a long haired brown one.  Comments, suggestions?

Thanks in advance..........Cal
 

OH Breeder

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My opinion,
1- Do you know how much he is currently gaining? What point did you weigh him prior to figure his rate of gain? If he is on track don't push too hard you may burn him out.  You can gradually increase ration as long as he is cleaning it up. We give a dose of Probiotiocs gel every 90 days or so to make sure we keep them ruminating ( if that is word) and they don't become "burn out" on feed.

2- Sullivan's make a dye that works great on black cattle. If you are not altering the natural color then there is nothing wrong with dying the black hair black. Some calves hair will bleach out as they get a bit older from sun as well as other things. some folks might not agree with the dying of the hair. It is standard in our part of country. We do not attempt to change the natural color though.
 

shortyjock89

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I agree with OH B, and if you are worried about burning him up, you might think about adding Barley to his feed if it's available in your area.  It will keep his body temp lower (more hair), and it will help put a smoother fat cover on him.  I also think that steers that are fed barley the last 60-90 days have a better flavor. I assume you're feeding a bagged feed, but if you know the ingredient breakdown, could you please post it with the percentages.  I think that 20-22% barley , and 25-30% corn, and the rest being oats, protein, and filler (beet pulp or cottonseed hulls) works really well for finishing steers.  We have Shorthorns, and we can get over 3 lbs of gain/day easily throughout the summer on that ration.
 

showsteerdlux

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on # 1. According to my calculations he should be getting between 27 and 33 pounds of feed a day, as this is 2.5-3% of his body weight. Is the feed you're feeding a grower or finisher? If a grower add some corn and barley to it and you should see some more growth. Lastly unless he is a really short calf he should probably finish somewhere in the 1280-1320 range imho. With 70 days left you could get him in that 1240-1250 range which would help alot imo although as I previously stated it wouldnt hurt to get those extra pounds on him.
Another option for weight would be to make sure that he is on a good mineral as this can make a world of difference on the way that he is gaining.
2. With an outside steer it will be hard to get hair but I would suggest washing him twice a day and blowing him out until he is just bairly damp then brushing him daily for 30 minutes to an hour. After washing make sure you put the oils back in his hair with a sheen or something on that line.
Good luck and looks like your project is coming along nicely.
 

BCCC

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she has 70 day still fair she wants him to finish at 1200 so only a 100 lbs of gain in 70 days, if he is gainign 2 lbs a day he should be weighing 1240 at fair time
 

OH Breeder

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The last 60 days should be a finisher ration. There are lots of different rations. If you are using a prebagged feed they should have one that is a finisher. Barley will put a hard cover on him and help as Olsen said smooth him out. I wouldn't be afraid of 1240 at all. Do you have a good feed guy that can help you?
 

BCCC

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I personaly would want to try to get him to 1275 they will normally grade better if they are closer to the "ideal" maret weight
 

CalifAngus

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Thanks to those of you who have answered me........I'll try to answer some your questions in order......

I got the rate of gain after dividing the difference of pounds by the number of days between weighings. 
We do use a direct fed microbal which is probiotics and yes it works wonderfully. 
The Verdemont feed we're using is a grower. The main ingredients are rolled barley, soybean meal, molasses, beet pulp shreds, roasted soybeans, animal fat and vegatable fat, brewers yeast and a bunch of other minerals and vitamins.  There are no percentages on these ingredients. 

I like the idea of barley but is it as hot as corn?  We were told at a recent show that our steers being at 1100-1150 pounds were only about 50-75 pounds away from finishing.  The biggest problem we have found is what is a good finish weight for Black Angus cattle.  The breed itself is a medium sized breed.  Out steer would a medium framed steer.  We have been told to finish him somewhere between 1150 and 1250.  Any ideas?  I think anymore than 1250 would be too much for him to really move freely in the show ring.  The odd thing for us is we just took our Black Angus steers to a show and they placed as the last three in the group.  We were told they were just to big and not as developed in the rear end as they would like to see.  Any ideas on that?  I was planning on mixing in some corn for the last 60 days but we were told by some of the 4H advisors not to because they felt our steers were already big enough.  Suggestions, ideas?

BCCC...What are you basing the 1275lbs as the "ideal" market weight on?  It would help me know so I could look up that information which has been kinda mixed to date. 

Thanks again.............

 

 

showsteerdlux

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Il clarify the 1275 weight question. At the slaughterhouse they want the steer to fit in the "box". This means that they want the steers to be 1250 and up so that they dont have to combine meat and the such. As long as you arent over that 950 hcw.(14-1500 live weight) they are going to be happy with them being a little heavier. Do you have a pic of your steer so that we can see his height. If he is of medium frame as you said then he probably need to be in that 1275-1325 weight range in order to be finished and ready for the slaughterhouse. With being worried about him moving freely in the ring, a 12 weight steer should not have any trouble moving around the ring unless they have structure problems to begin with. with muscle you could feed the product from sullivans(forgot the name at the moment but maybe its optaflexx) but it also burns fat off so you need to have him a little overfinished before putting him on this.
On the barley, no it is not anywhere near as hot as corn. That being said I would feed added corn for the next 30 days then finish him out with extra barley for the last 40. It also wouldnt hurt to get him of the grower feed and get him on a good finisher.
Also the sooner you get him on a good mineral, the better he will respond to feed and finish.
 

CalifAngus

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Show........Thnks for the clarification.  I thought that is what was meant but I wasn't sure.  We have dealt with that with the hogs before but with so many finishing numbers being thrown out your mind gets a little jumbled. Especially because we don't' live in cow country being from Southern California.  I am going to take a picture of him today and I will post a few up for viewing.  I will also get his hip height as well. Thanks..
 

CalifAngus

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This is our steer as of today.  He has a hip measurement of 52" and is 15months old.  He currently weighs 1100 pounds.  How does he look?
 

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showsteerdlux

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The pic is a little large but with a hip height of 52" I'd go out on a limb and say that he isn't going to be ready at 1200. I had a steer last year who would have been lucky to have a hip height of 50", he was 14 months old when he finished out and he finished out at 1286 pounds with the judge saying that he was one of the best finished steers he had seen. This being said if it was my steer I would start feeding him alot heavier and that should get him up to that 1300 range I was talking about. That should also help his topline to be smoother and give him an overall better look. With 70 days left you are probably looking at 3.0 pounds a day to get you to 1310 which will give you some room for shrink while taking him to your fair.
Good luck with him and anymore questions just ask.
 

simtal

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I don't your calf is near fat or heavy enough yet.  I'd be feeding him alot harder than whatyou have done and try to put on a much weight as possible.  You could easily take that calf to 1300. 
 

Jill

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Agree with Simtal, he doesn't appear to have any finish at this point and probably won't have enough at 1200 pounds, not sure why you're shooting for that weight, but it is too light for that steer to be competitive and finished, you need to be much heavier.
 

DLD

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Yep, I'm with everyone else here, your steer appears to be a long way from ideally finished. I don't have much experience with barley, but I've always heard that it makes for a harder finish than corn. I wouldn't be afraid to add some corn to your ration, because you need the extra softness. Fast fat (if it's available in your area) or some kind of liquid fat like Golden Flow could work well for you, too (Not recomending you use them all at once, just listing alternatives you could try).

Unless you have some particular weight limit at your county show that you just have to be under, I'd pour the feed to him and worry about getting him fat first. Then you can worry about weight after you get him finished. It's easy enough to pull weight off for a weigh in, but getting 'em fat takes time, and if they're not fat enough, they're not going to get along, no matter what they weigh.

Not all that many years ago, it was true that the straight British bred cattle (Angus, Hereford and Shorthorn) were smaller framed and earlier maturing (therefore easier to finish) than the Continental breeds and crosses. Nowadays, what with the emphasis on performance in the British breeds and the emphasis on the showring in the Continentals, the opposite is true as often as not. It can be hard for some people that've been around awhile to shake the idea that the British breed cattle don't sometimes need fed hard too, though.
 
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