New bulls living up to their hype?

Help Support Steer Planet:

red

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
7,850
Location
LaRue, Ohio
Are any of the new bulls from last year living up to their hype? Some were really talked about last year & was wondering how the calves are turning out?
Heard salutes have been so far really good. Big on the BW's but overall seems to get high marks.
What other new bull are you hearing about?

Red
 

cattlechick

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
163
Of course GOLDENCHILD, alot of talk on him. Weights pretty big. You either love him or hate him from what I have heard.  :-\
 

sjcattleco

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
496
Location
Southeast Ohio
Here I go,  out on a limb again... Just food for thought!

Salute will not live up to the hype... Look at him he looks like a steer!!! Look at who owns him and who is promoting him... He will be bred and flushed to a bunch of cows that are sure to produce a decent calf once in a while..... Salute will raise one decent calf out of 50 and they will picture that sucker in every rag in the country and tout how great he is..  That is the #1 problem in the breed... too much money behind the wrong types of cattle.  if people are actaully talking about big BWt's you know they are really BIG. 
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
sjcattleco said:
Here I go,  out on a limb again... Just food for thought!

Salute will not live up to the hype... Look at him he looks like a steer!!! Look at who owns him and who is promoting him... He will be bred and flushed to a bunch of cows that are sure to produce a decent calf once in a while..... Salute will raise one decent calf out of 50 and they will picture that sucker in every rag in the country and tout how great he is..  That is the #1 problem in the breed... too much money behind the wrong types of cattle.  if people are actaully talking about big BWt's you know they are really BIG. 

And they say I am blunt!!! What I find interesting is to go thru some of the older catalogs/magazines - look who was heavily promoted - then look the next year - how many are left??

I don't use unproven bulls -so I just kinda in one ear and out the other  - but certainly the ability to promote, flash the one winner repeatedly, flush the heck out of some cow and promote promote promote has made some people a pile of change!  ;D ;D ;D
 

OH Breeder

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
5,954
Location
Ada, Ohio
first SJC if I remember right you believe in linear measurements or something along those lines. A Brazilian cow poke has a book on. Found the information very interesting. Don't have much time to read, but skimmed the information you had originally sent me on how a bull should look. I think that it is interesting when folks are selecting phenotype for breeding bulls. In your mind you would think you would want a carbon copy of what you are trying to breed, but in contrast to what you really should be selecting. I hear what you are saying loud and clear. I am still trying to figure it all out myself.
???
 

sjcattleco

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
496
Location
Southeast Ohio
OH Breeder said:
first SJC if I remember right you believe in linear measurements or something along those lines. A Brazilian cow poke has a book on. Found the information very interesting. Don't have much time to read, but skimmed the information you had originally sent me on how a bull should look. I think that it is interesting when folks are selecting phenotype for breeding bulls. In your mind you would think you would want a carbon copy of what you are trying to breed, but in contrast to what you really should be selecting. I hear what you are saying loud and clear. I am still trying to figure it all out myself.
???
Brazilian cow poke?
If you are refering to Dr Jan Bonsma he is South African.

Its funny how people think that if you want a fancy steer you should breed to a bull that looks like a fancy steer... That is why the people who do that have to breed that feminine steery bull to a cow who appears as mascluine as he does.... you have heard the term "Steer momma" what a marketing tool that phrase is... People are starting to see the light!! Why is Coronet Leader 21st so popular... Cause the calves are the right type... Why are we using Smallflower leader 2nd.. Same reason... Why are people talking about Proud Jazz or the Canadian bulls from Muridale or Saskvalley... Cause they are right and they are changers!! The more masculine the bull the more feminine the daughters... the more feminine the daughters the more masculine her sons will be...
 

knabe

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
13,630
Location
Hollister, CA
i'll give you my perspective.  i'm a novice.  used to show a lot.  never bred anything.  then 20 years later, bought two cows with good bloodlines built the opposite way, one with old breding and new calves, the other, new breeding with and old line calf.  read everything i can, feel like a rudderless boat.  feel like i should breed to show calves since that's what i used to do, but want nice females that can put lbs on a calf on irrigated improved pastures.  want some tenderness, carcass genes, but know that the couch potato tv watching cattle may not be fertile.  like participating on boards like these.  at this point, still bumpiing off of every fad, but mostly interested in the type of cattle that have been in the guess the bull threads.  the thing i like about them is that they are typically older, and proven, and still look good, and don't look bunk fed.  the show calf industry seems like they are homgenizing everything to be the same, and given selection, they will get there except for hair color.  it seems like beauty always seems to be extremes.  when different human faces are merged into one average face, there is beauty, which in cattle is my opinion too, but it's different with cattle.  as we tug from one extreme to the next, we reinforce easily discernable differences, rather than distiling prepotent individuals.  to me, every fad mongrelizes the industry, which is why there aren't many great ones.  as someone who studies genetics, it seems such a waste to eliminate diversity between cattle breeds and merge them into one.  maybe in the end, it doesn't matter as good show jocks will seek out the old bloodlines anyway for something different.
 

knabe

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
13,630
Location
Hollister, CA
sorry for replying so fast again, but you have an interesting comment sj about the masculine bulls producing feminine females.  I wonder why that doesn't work in humans, or horses.  perhaps it does, but the gene pool from wehere people are making those selections don't have the diversity to produce a clear sex type for some other reason that is not easily phenotypic.  i would like to see 10 breeders rank 100 bulls on these characteristics and then do a fertility test and see where the numbers lie.  some people have been doing things like this, but i would like to see the data in a peer reveiwable format, rather than by marketing.  There will be a distribution, and people will again select for what they want and fixing a type.  then do another test between visual appraisal and real numbers.  to me, this is what stands out in the old bulls.  there was more of a breeding consorutium and evaluations than one breeder trying to outmarket the other one.  again, a newbie, so probably not relevant.
 

sjcattleco

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
496
Location
Southeast Ohio
LOL  I would like to figure some of you guys out!!!!
Just when I think ok OH breeder is a show cattle breeder probably thinks Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread and WHAM!! he posts a link from the gosple of  KIT PHARO!!!

WOW

there is hope for this guy!!!

HEY RED  ...DL this deserves some sort of award!! 
 

OH Breeder

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
5,954
Location
Ada, Ohio
sjcattleco said:
LOL  I would like to figure some of you guys out!!!!
Just when I think ok OH breeder is a show cattle breeder probably thinks Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread and WHAM!! he posts a link from the gosple of  KIT PHARO!!!

WOW

there is hope for this guy!!!

HEY RED  ...DL this deserves some sort of award!! 
If there is one tihng I have learned in life....always keep them guessing.
We probably could have some interesitng talks. Because, I grew up with Coronet Leader and his progeny, as well as Rodeo Drive,Ayatollah, Tribune, Cujo others that aren't quiet "MAIN STREAM". My semen tank is quiet schizophrenic in orgin. Some Red KNight, TPS Leader, Alta Cedar First Blood, Sonny.....See ya never know. I would say I fall somewhere between show cattle breeder and reformist.
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
sjcattleco said:
LOL  I would like to figure some of you guys out!!!!
Just when I think ok OH breeder is a show cattle breeder probably thinks Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread and WHAM!! he posts a link from the gosple of  KIT PHARO!!!

WOW

there is hope for this guy!!!

HEY RED  ...DL this deserves some sort of award!! 

OH Breeder ranks right up there with our choice of good guys, I'll try to find him a special award -  ! I'm sure the Pharo Cattle work great on grass and out west but I think they would need stilts or an elevator to breed some of my cows! (maybe all of them!!) and in mud there could be a career ending injury  ;D
 

sjcattleco

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
496
Location
Southeast Ohio
NAAA they would get it done.. a good PCC Red angus bull might be just what you need...  I know when I reach a point here on my place that I can raise a few of the Durham Reds it will be done with a PCC Red Angus bull!!! His RA bulls out sold the blacks in the last 2 RFD-TV sales!!
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
sjcattleco said:
NAAA they would get it done.. a good PCC Red angus bull might be just what you need...  I know when I reach a point here on my place that I can raise a few of the Durham Reds it will be done with a PCC Red Angus bull!!! His RA bulls out sold the blacks in the last 2 RFD-TV sales!!

Its a secret but I bred Red Angus this year - all AI so Kit will have to keep his bull!
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
sjcattleco said:
I am sure he has jugs full of Colorado Hobo!!!

Yeah, I have looked at the bull, but unless SEK sells it, I don't buy it - it's that loyalty thing!
 

red

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
7,850
Location
LaRue, Ohio
sjcattleco said:
LOL  I would like to figure some of you guys out!!!!
Just when I think ok OH breeder is a show cattle breeder probably thinks Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread and WHAM!! he posts a link from the gosple of  KIT PHARO!!!

WOW

there is hope for this guy!!!

HEY RED  ...DL this deserves some sort of award!! 

Scott, one thing you find from this group is that we can surprise you! OH B is one that will really dig in & research what he's doing. We have great fun discussing ideas together.  I've learned a lot from people like him & many others!
By the way OH B, that was a great link! Really good information. Pretty bulls really don't make the best sires. Think that's what Gary bob has been trying to drum into our heads too!

Red
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
OH Breeder said:
DL you used a Red Angus? ??? On what may I ask and what Red Angus did you use? King Rob?


There was some method to my madness! I like red cows!!! My purebred red Maines are eligible to be registered as 3/4 Shorthorns (some are) and I was looking for a red calving ease bull for my red heifer (Snap Dragon - a Topper x Witch Doctor- Paydirt son dam)- then I thought maybe I'll breed a couple of the heifers to Red Angus - if I read the rules right my 3/4 Shorties bred to Red Angus are eligible as Durham Reds...but in any event (even if they aren't I like red cattle), I used the bull Leachman Heavenly 8141 - gave me a chance to learn a bit about the breed and discover that what I have experienced here in regards to RA temperament (working or checking in cattle) is not the rule... but remember it's a secret!  ;D

ALso bred my big red cow to Gizmo and she has "passed over" - maybe Ill get around to ultrasounding her next weekend...

PS got your email - have your answer - just haven't gotten my act together ...moving horse off grass, maybe after that!

pss red is right (again) OH Breeder is a great source of knowledge for us
 

OH Breeder

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
5,954
Location
Ada, Ohio
:p if you could see me you would see I am blushing. Thanks Ladies. Appreciate the compliments, but Red, as I said today. This board is a TREMENDOUS resource for me. I really appreciate the information I have discovered on here. The folks are really genuinine! You ladies have also been a GREAT resource for many.
 
Top