New RA Genetic defect rules

[garybob]

When are the Blacks going to get serious about eliminating the Fawn calf gene?

 

[DL]

When are the Blacks going to get serious about eliminating the Fawn calf gene?

gee GB - what a silly question - I suspect they will get serious about FCS right after they deal with the Long Nosed dwarf and the new form of arthrogoposis - Imagine knowing the identy of the LN dwarf gene but only being able to use it if you go thru the AAA - now that's a system that is sure to work swell! I have a picture of the LN dwarf - should i post it?

 

[knabe]

yes

 

[Show Heifer]

Dumb question DL....post it....post it....post it now!!!!

And Garybob.....the Angus Ass. is just that. Apparently those carriers already identified in Austraila are owned by some "big dogs" (Right country isn't it DL?)....so therefore, it is not a genetic defect, but an "environmental".  Whatever.....looks like the Angus Ass. needs to by a bridge and a big beach, as they seem to like the sand!!

 

[sjcattleco]

The thing that caught my attention is the fact that when you sell a registered red angus, you, as a seller are guaranteeing them to be defect free, and to have a defect free calf (if selling bred). If the animal is found to be a carrier down the road, you, as a seller, are REQUIRED to either replace the animal, or refund their money. That means if I sell a heifer today and it turns out she is a carrier next year (please keep in mind - no genetic test yet) I MUST refund or replace.

Just wandered what everything thought.....pretty strong stance compared to other breeds and genetic defects...

I think its great!!!! sounds like they have balls!!! Oh yea they have BOLZE!!!  same thing!!! LOL

 

[DL]

This is a picture of a 3 year old Angus long-nosed dwarf and her dam - the picture was taken by Dr Jim Reecy from Iowa State who identified the mutation and developed the test - a little history

At the start of the 21st century, abnormal Angus calves were reported in several herds in the western U.S. Unlike the previous form of dwarfism, these calves appeared normal at birth, but failed to grow, and after several months appeared to have abnormally short legs and thick bodies. Astute breeders were concerned that these calves were dwarfs. All of the affected calves had multiple pedigree relationships with one Angus cow used extensively in an ET program. Four abnormal calves were sent to veterinary diagnostic laboratories for necropsy. Gross and histopathological examination of these calves indicated evidence for diminished endochondral ossification and other features consistent with dwarfism,and they were diagnosed  as the ‘‘long-nosed’’ dwarf. In the spring of 2002, the existence of six ‘‘long-nosed’’dwarf calves was reported to the AAA. Dr. Reecy, obtained DNA from all ancestors in the three generations preceding the dwarf calves; this served as the starting point to identify the defective gene. In the fall of 2003, a dwarf heifer and her dam (see picture) were donated to Iowa State. Both the carrier cow and the dwarf heifer were inseminated with semen from a bull known as a dwarf producer, High Valley 7D7 of 4G9 (AAA # 12,838,783; born 1997) and ET was performed to produce additional dwarf calves. Using his genetic material, Dr. Reecy was able to determine that the genetic defect of the long-nosed Angus dwarf was not the same defect as the limbin (EVC2 or LBN) mutation in Japanese brown cattle, nor the ACAN mutation in the Dexter breed [that's for knabe ]. Further investigation revealed that the causal mutation of long-nosed dwarfism in American Angus cattle was within exon 15 of the cyclic GMP dependant, type-II, protein kinase (PRKG2) gene. Normal function of the PRKG2 gene is required to allow chondrocyte maturation. The mutation is 100% concordant with the dwarf, carrier,and wild-type phenotype.

Phenotypically, when compared to normal age mates, the long-nosed dwarf fails to grow. The limbs are shortened, but the body is of normal size. There is decreased long bone and vertebral length. Endochondral
ossification is incorrect and there is premature calcification of chondrocytes, and osteocytes have a disorganized arrangement and abnormal phenotype.

The list of Angus dwarfs is not inherently obvious on the AAA site but if you search for dwarf you can findit. There are only 7 recent dwarfs listed and less that 20 total in the whole history of the AAA. Since anecdotal reports of dwarfs similar to the long-nosed dwarf (as compared to the snorter dwarf) have been around for decades it is difficult to believe that this is as the AAA purports a new point mutation involving only 7 animals.

Yeah SH - silly question! and yes SJ they do have Bolze and good for them.

and I ask just one more time just imagine what would have happened if the AMAA or ASA or AAA had done what the ARA did!!

 

[Jill]

I'm thinking if the ASA and AMAA (to answer your question in my opinion) had implemented the refund policy you would not have an ASA or AMAA around to worry about today, that seems like a really good way to go broke fast.  I guess for me I would rather switch breeds than take a chance that 2 years down the road I would have to refund all the money I made this year when you have really no idea who your carriers are since they haven't been identified and it appears you are still coming up with some.

 

[Show Heifer]

You would only go broke if you were selling carriers....and I can not help but think that most folks know their herd better than they admit too.

Talked to the RA assoc and they have had nothing but positive feed back..... some breeders are even irradicating those "suspected" bloodlines. IMVHO I think the Red Angus Assoc is taking the proactive approach rather than head in the sand approach.....but again, just my opinion. Maybe that is why their assoc is growing faster than any other???? (Again JMVHO)

 

[Jill]

It's not just your herd you need to worry about, it's what you have bred to, just in this post there is a question about one bull and a new one that has just been found out.  I agree with that type of hard line once there is a test or a way to be sure.

 

[Show Dad]

and I ask just one more time just imagine what would have happened if the AMAA or ASA or AAA had done what the ARA did!!

Ok, I have been holding this opinion in but DL's questions begs a response. And so I post it now probably to be skewered for even thinking it. I mean no ill will to anyone but it is worth some brain time (serious thought):

DL it has to do with the membership and their goals being represented in the association staff and executive board. The long term integrity of the RA breed was taken into account not the short term cost to anyone member. If the members lack integrity then don't be surprised when the associations choose not to act with integrity.

An interesting side note to this issue is that when it comes to the show ring the RA has some unique (most would say weird) rules to keep the cattle practical (I know a subjective term). But look at the others associations show ring philosophy and correlate that to their handling of genetic problems.

OK enough said, now it's burn the alien at the stake time.
<alien>

PS RA stands for "Real Angus!" (I just couldn't resist )

 

[Show Heifer]

Wow, SD!! What are you implying (I ask innocently.... : )??

What ever it is, I agree!!! 

Have you ever ate CRAB??? Certified Red Angus Beef!!!

 

[Show Dad]

When it comes to CRABs I have a whole pasture full! (Did I just say that?)

 

[DL]

SD et all - I find the whole thing very interesting - we couldn't get MA breeders to provide samples and information, board members stonewalled, and no one thought that PHA (or TH) was an issue for commercial cattlemen at all. When people knew about it but before the test was available people (of less than stellar integrity IMHO) were dumping PHAC cows, bulls, matings to unsuspecting buyers. I agree that most folks knew their herd better than they admit and I still do not believe many of the people who tell us they never had a PHA or TH calf. I believe that the boards promoted rules that allowed the powerful, important, or big donors to gracefully dump their defective stock. I believe the AAA is still doing that. Many of these defects are costly, result in death of calf and sometimes cow, have welfare implications and should be treated (IMVHO) as medical issues - not political. Despite big hair and big butt they provide no tangible benefit for the breed.

Now to the RAAA - wow! This is what the Greg Comstock the Executive Secy said about the rules -
Our decisions regarding genetic defect policy have been some of the least contested in any of our board meetings.  Since Red Angus' continued growth depends on maintaining the trust of our commercial
customers, we're obligated to find solutions for any and all "holes" in our genetic products.

Imagine a board whose goal was the continued growth and betterment of the breed - who did not act on their own selfish interests - it boggles the mind

Aliens are not burned at the stake - when the issue demands they are vaporized in an old Budweiser can used exclusively for that purpose

 

[Show Dad]

I better stop drinking Budweiser.
<alien>

 

[BIGTEX]

If someone had defect free  genetics that would beat dirty animals in the show ring it would not be an issue.

 

[aj]

Wow it is a devestating deal. How would you like to spend half of your life building a herd and have a genetic defect show up. It looks almost like to me that any big herd should do some linebreeding to test their program. I should be in the Doctor who who's guide to registered cattle. Linebreeding cattle is a good practice and test. I wonder what all cattle of canyon are out there. Hopefully cherokee canyon is clean. Education is the key here and in the future. Don't "just drill' but just linebreed as a test. We should have learned are lesson from the battle the herfords fought in the 50's or whatever and the dwarfism deal. I think a book is in order on this onslaught of genetic defect disorders discovered in the last 5 years. I would think college animal science would start a new course on genetic disorders and their economic consquence.wow.

 

[DL]

If someone had defect free  genetics that would beat dirty animals in the show ring it would not be an issue.

I guess I would phrase it differently - if someone cared about the breed, the health and welfare of their cattle, and ethically producing the best seedstock it wouldn't be an issue

 

[BIGTEX]

DL you are correct if you are breeding for seedstock. What about just breeding for show steers? Name a major steer show where it has been won by an animal where both parents were free. If I had a purebred program I would feel the same way, but I don't. Have you seen the August Show Circuit,  almost every page was promoting "dirty bulls". If there wasn't a demand for those genetics no one would breed them. Like Red has said recently, she has seen animals w/ dirty genetics bring less at auctions. This is a start in the right direction for seedstock producers.

I wonder who the top selling steer over Labor Day weekend was sired by? Um can you say HEATWAVE! just a guess.

 

[DL]

DL you are correct if you are breeding for seedstock. What about just breeding for show steers? Name a major steer show where it has been won by an animal where both parents were free. If I had a purebred program I would feel the same way, but I don't. Have you seen the August Show Circuit,  almost every page was promoting "dirty bulls". If there wasn't a demand for those genetics no one would breed them. Like Red has said recently, she has seen animals w/ dirty genetics bring less at auctions. This is a start in the right direction for seedstock producers.

I wonder who the top selling steer over Labor Day weekend was sired by? Um can you say HEATWAVE! just a guess.

BT - don't get / read Show Circuit (can you say read when there are only pictures??) sure there is a demand for dirty bulls from people breeding for show steers but what happens to those unfortunate critters who happen not to be male?? Doubt that most of them end up in the feedlot, which raises the question what is a registered heifer from a dirty bull?

 

[inthebarnagain]

DL you are correct if you are breeding for seedstock. What about just breeding for show steers? Name a major steer show where it has been won by an animal where both parents were free. If I had a purebred program I would feel the same way, but I don't. Have you seen the August Show Circuit,  almost every page was promoting "dirty bulls". If there wasn't a demand for those genetics no one would breed them. Like Red has said recently, she has seen animals w/ dirty genetics bring less at auctions. This is a start in the right direction for seedstock producers.

I wonder who the top selling steer over Labor Day weekend was sired by? Um can you say HEATWAVE! just a guess.

BT - don't get / read Show Circuit (can you say read when there are only pictures??) sure there is a demand for dirty bulls from people breeding for show steers but what happens to those unfortunate critters who happen not to be male?? Doubt that most of them end up in the feedlot, which raises the question what is a registered heifer from a dirty bull?

Hey now, there is always ONE article!! ;D