Northern Shorthorns Herd Bull

[trevorgreycattleco]

Id like to just sit back and watch a conversation at a bar/ cattle show/ ASA conference  between jamiediamond and aj. That would be better then Sanford and Son reruns on TV Land.

Throw in JIT and like Jimmy Walker used to say......"DYNOOMITE!"

 

[aj]

There is no one smarter in the Universe than a 20 year old kid. That is a fact.

 

[jaimiediamond]

Id like to just sit back and watch a conversation at a bar/ cattle show/ ASA conference  between jamiediamond and aj. That would be better then Sanford and Son reruns on TV Land.

Throw in JIT and like Jimmy Walker used to say......"DYNOOMITE!"

Brock I think it wouldn't be amusing as one would hope.  Aj was very soft spoken at Denver last year from all reports heard.  I am consistent I love to talk and have discussions regarding any topic.  Shorthorn cattle are one of my passions whereas aj is happy to discuss how his Shorthorns were wrecks and he needed an Angus to fix the problem.  He has yet to talk about any success he has had aside from Durham Reds. 

There is no one smarter in the Universe than a 20 year old kid. That is a fact.

You of all people should know as your living life that age doesn't determine intelligence.  You’re either born with it or you were not.  Ironically yet again you undermine me with age which I might add doesn't change the fact that I also have experiences.  Amazingly enough I had my happy quarter century so when does age stop being a factor? 

Aj you have never answered any of my questions you always come back with another attack. How many herd bulls have you produced? Of those how many were used in your herd? Any produce more than 18 registered calves?  How many females have you sold that have gone on to make their new owner happy?  What traits do you select for? I now have a new question if you don’t follow cow families and they are just a show cattle trend how come you yourself follow them, Anns, Lady, Fancy I could continue but what is the point?

  x*MA23100 VMA EIZENHOWER
  *xAR29497 SODHOUSE MR MAN 49
    *x3953747 SODHOUSE CH LADY 965
Sire: *x4059634 SODHOUSE LITTLE MAN 342
    *x3928591 CLS MAINE IMPRESSION
  *x3976721 KS QUEEN 611
    x3976704 KS QUEEN W 420
SODHOUSE FANCY 510
    *x3986354 TH-F PA DO SUDS 732
  *xAR32656 SODHOUSE SABATKA 185
    *xAR29032 SODHOUSE MIKI 4
Dam: *xAR37439 SODHOUSE FANCY 351
    *xAR29497 SODHOUSE MR MAN 49
  *xAR32647 SODHOUSE FANCY 208
  *xAR29487 SODHOUSE FANCY 65

 

[kfacres]

Jamie... I'd like for you to answer you own questions:
How many herd bulls have you produced? Of those how many were used in your herd? Any produce more than 18 registered calves?  How many females have you sold that have gone on to make their new owner happy?  What traits do you select for?

And I'm talking you Personally... not your old man, not your parentage tree of Shorthorn enthusiasts either...  you...

Me...  personally, everything that's ever happened with the sheep, or beef-- has been my doing... I'm the first generation in both in my family.  My dad grew up on a swine/ beef/ row crop operation its all gone now...  My mom- on a dairy and row crop farm...  I bought my first Shorthorn heifer in '04- and have built from there (even though I'm not going to lie... I haven't built much up other than knowledge-- now the sheps- different story, mom and dad bought my first sheep in 1993- and I bought my first Oxford in 2000-- the rest is history- state/ national champions, a futurity 'almost' winner, and sale high sellers/ champions. 

Not to brag on myself, and I'm sure you do your fair share at the place-- as much as one can being the age we are:  but I am curious to see what you have to say...

 

[TPX]

A great cowman that I once new made this statement "A lot of procducers are known as cattlemen. I prefer to be called a cowman. This is a critically important term because I believe the maternal side of cattle breeding is underrated and essential for profit. What's worse, the industry is set up to evaluate which cattle are best, often and unconsciously, working against the selection of good mothers."  If you look at this herd today a lot of it revolves around great cow family's.  It takes alot more time and effort to creat a great cow family then just getting the odd fluke good bull calf.  I personally love my herd of cows and it is made up of mainly 3 cow family's. 

 

[jaimiediamond]

Jamie... I'd like for you to answer you own questions:
How many herd bulls have you produced? Of those how many were used in your herd? Any produce more than 18 registered calves?  How many females have you sold that have gone on to make their new owner happy?  What traits do you select for?

And I'm talking you Personally... not your old man, not your parentage tree of Shorthorn enthusiasts either...  you...

Me...  personally, everything that's ever happened with the sheep, or beef-- has been my doing... I'm the first generation in both in my family.  My dad grew up on a swine/ beef/ row crop operation its all gone now...  My mom- on a dairy and row crop farm...  I bought my first Shorthorn heifer in '04- and have built from there (even though I'm not going to lie... I haven't built much up other than knowledge-- now the sheps- different story, mom and dad bought my first sheep in 1993- and I bought my first Oxford in 2000-- the rest is history- state/ national champions, a futurity 'almost' winner, and sale high sellers/ champions. 

Not to brag on myself, and I'm sure you do your fair share at the place-- as much as one can being the age we are:  but I am curious to see what you have to say...

Jody

As for aj he personally attacks yet he never answers the questions I have asked.  If he wasn’t so out there to undermine many different people I wouldn’t be so curious.  He is malicious and often down right mean.  This thread was started as I believe the Northern Cow herd has a lot of high quality animals that have really been working for their owners.  aj managed to morph it into something completely different.

I shall give you a timeline.  I have been very lucky to be a daughter of a great Shorthorn breeder who has openly taught me to make my own decisions.  If I were to include the bulls he has produced the number would huge! So we will just talk about me I have personally produced a number of bulls but I will use one cow family example

The foundation cow for my herd was given to me in 1990 from Olive Aldridge I cannot take credit for her 1992 heifer calf but I can take credit for selecting breeding the mating for producing my first herd sire in 1993 (he was nothing compared to Captain Mark) He was sold as a herd bull and worked for a number of years. I had this cow herself produced most of the descendants of my current program but more importantly every bull I had out of her went on to be a herd sire.  She also had some embryo matings that have done well in Scotland.  This family has produced a large number of herd sires (eleven) that have produced in either commercial or purebred operations. I made the breeding decisions that resulted in these bulls as my family really believed the best way to learn is to do.    Diamond Prophecy 21P is out of my own program for example I made the breeding decision that resulted in him when I was 17 years of age.

If you want I could continue in what each cow family has done and how I selected them either individually or as a family unit with or without pictures.  

 

[aj]

All my heifer replacements are essentially roughed through their time leading up to breeding. The extreme frames are kicked off. The calves that pass muster are ready for a bull. I try and get them pelvic checked. They are given a chance to succeed. If they pass the test they get a chance to stick around. I don't pick out an all american show heifer and give her special treatment in order to keep her in the herd cause she's from a special cow family.

 

[jaimiediamond]

All my heifer replacements are essentially roughed through their time leading up to breeding. The extreme frames are kicked off. The calves that pass muster are ready for a bull. I try and get them pelvic checked. They are given a chance to succeed. If they pass the test they get a chance to stick around. I don't pick out an all american show heifer and give her special treatment in order to keep her in the herd cause she's from a special cow family.

Aj you avoided the questions again.  How many herd bulls have you produced? Of those how many were used in your herd? Any produce more than 18 registered calves?  How many females have you sold that have gone on to make their new owner happy? For the cow families have you not found one more prolific than another for producing sires or great daughters?

 

[kfacres]

jamie.. awesome.. but i know you are within a year or two of my age- either way... and in 93... i was 5... 

I know when i was five, that if I had made a selection and it worked out... it would have been pure luck--

I'll tell you that when i left for college, the first 2 months were extremely hard on my parents.  for the past 4 years they had though I just goofed off all day, when really i was caring for 80 brood ewes, plus the rest- 15 brood cows and calves- and milking once every other day.  when I left, i'll never forget people telling me that my parent's had finally realized how much I had done-- I never asked them about it, i figured just people telling me was good enough...

now after college, i've taken my sheep back to my new house 250 miles away- and will be bringing about 5 of the shorthorns up here- my parents wish to continue on with a commercial angus based cowherd- but just want about 5 grass eating sheep to keep the smaller lots mowed down that really don't work out well for the cows to graze. 

jamie, i respect your life and program-- yet I still must say it's a million times easier being born into something, as opposed to building it all yourself.  Even making your own decisions is easier, because of guidance you receive. 

i only hope that when my kids (god help the world if and when they come) can make educated decisions at the age of 5 on which ewe or heifer they want to breed to who... 

 

[happyrock]

If you want I could continue in what each cow family has done and how I selected them either individually or as a family unit with or without pictures.  

Jamie

I have no question of your ability to breed good cattle; however I would be delighted as I am sure some others would as well if you could include some photos of some
of your cow families and the breeding and selection decisions you have made in your career.

HR

 

[aj]

I'm with HAPPYROCK.....we want more pictures. If you have been making breeding decisions since the age of 5 you have my attention. I think we need more photos also.

 

[rarebirdz]

Wuld be neat. Aj how about those questions?

 

[vanridge]

Why is it when a woman is cattle smart its because her daddy taught her everything but if I guy is cattle smart he was born with it? Go to the diamond shorthorn website and to recent posts by jamiediamond (some good ones this summer too) and you'll get all the proof you need. Besides that, the point of this thread was to show off a the Northern herd, which I am very much interested in personally because we have all our cows calving to a son and grandson of Northern Legend. If Okotoks would have posted these pictures would y'all be questioning his smarts??
Cut the BS- glad you are finding success in what you are doing, but why question someone else's success all the time?
AJ- answer the question, and hey post some pics of your stock, love to see them, maybe we could all learn something.
As for me, we are small time commercial folk, trying to make something out of our little farm, because we love what we do. If my ranting seems a little uncanadian, I apologize.
<beer>

 

[comercialfarmer]

I still don't understand all the talk about cow families. Cow families are never talked about in production agriculture. Cow families are strictly a show cattle gimmick. Its a beauty contest. It is a joke. It is a way to sell some 4-h kid a female. "hey mamma this heifer is out Queen Sheba"...lets buy her. Its strictly a embryo transplant cow term. Its a joke its never about production.....its about a beauty contest. No one ever talks about the "rock solid" cow family. The cow that has raised 13 calves on the wind swept plains of Oklahoma. They very seldom talk about the cow that raised 3 sons that made herd sires. Cow families are a sales gimmick. Cow families are for strictly pretty cattle. Show ring cattle. You invite your Australian friend over and take the golf cart out and look at the purty cow and drink wine spritzers and talk about old England. I have been to National Cattle Assc. meetings. I have been to Kansas Livestock assciation meetings. NO ONE talks about cow families there. No one talks about cow families on ranch research stations. They talk about Sire Groups. I have never heard the cowboys at feedlots talk about cow families. I have never heard cow families mentioned at extension meetings or beef improvement meetings.Production agriculture is about production. Pounds weaned per cow exposed. Average daily gain and the feed conversion. Cow families are for SHOW CATTLE. I have heard semen directories mention cow families maybe 5 times in 20 years. Cow families are for queen Sheba for little quenn shebas to show. Cow families are for people who breed cattle strictly for visual appraisal......Cow families are for pretty cattle and pretty people. Just my opinion. signed angry bob aj

This statement proves that you are not a seed stock producer.  Shorthorns like other "British" cattle are predominately desired for their maternal traits.  If their aren't notable cow families in your herd (and apparently their is not), why would I waste my money buying a bull that is apparently worthless.  I'm not looking at maternal cattle for a terminal sire.  I'd say you missed the boat, but it appears you didn't even catch the car ride to the dock.

A little bit of information is dangerous for some people.  You may want to consider why people discuss sire groups more frequently than dam groups.  It takes a mommy and a daddy to make a calf.  The daddy contributes half of the needed DNA, and the mommy the other half.  Mommies can naturally only have 1 calf a year.  Daddy's can naturally or through AI have hundreds or thousands of calves a year.  Which one do you think will provide statistically meaningful numbers for studies (quickly)?  If you have a female (a mommy) that is the perfect specimen, which is the fastest way to perpetuate her genetics- heifer calves (daughters) or bull calves (sons)?  Remember, mommies can only have 1 calf a year.  So the Bull is what will perpetuate the genetics the quickest.  But where did he get his genetics from-  half was mommy's.  Its tricky I know.  And most real cowboys know that it is the cow that will make or brake you.  When you have years to observe cattle and how they produce, you can get impression of how they perform.  May not be statistical, but in the right hands it can be very valuable.     

Pounds weaned per cow exposed.....    if you don't have fertile females, you will have a problem.  If your females can't milk and yet keep enough flesh to continue to cycle, you will have a problem.
Yep, if I were you I would probably ignore the female side of things and just focus on the sires and things like ADG only.  Let me know how that works out for you. 

Maybe you can speak at one of the Association meetings and enlighten us all, instead of just attending. 

 

[aj]

I think this was decent discussion. I was trying to make the point that the seedstock industry is not a Camelot. Jammie has played the victim card. The poor little rich girl card. No way to win the upcoming assault. No one can beat her daddies record of selling herd bulls. So she cannot lose a debate I guess. I put 6 bulls into commercial herds last year. Durham reds. Just sold two site unseen to a neighbor. I have not purchased a female in 20 years. It is a closed herd. My herd sires were 2 full brothers and their daddy this summer. I am thinking I'll take two pens of 5 to the yards next year with a possible small production sale next year. Like always I got my butt kicked on here again. I just think that sometimes the kids in the youth projects never hear the production sied of the story. They don't realize that cattle are made to eat forage and not show fed out of a bag. I stand"put in my place" and will not bother the Camelot way of thinking for at least a couple hours. Long live show cattle. I would think Jamie may be a candidate for ceo for the American Shorthorn Assn (Please make it down the road 10 years). signed the loyal opposition.

 

[kfacres]

I think this was decent discussion. I was trying to make the point that the seedstock industry is not a Camelot. Jammie has played the victim card. The poor little rich girl card. No way to win the upcoming assault. No one can beat her daddies record of selling herd bulls. So she cannot lose a debate I guess. I put 6 bulls into commercial herds last year. Durham reds. Just sold two site unseen to a neighbor. I have not purchased a female in 20 years. It is a closed herd. My herd sires were 2 full brothers and their daddy this summer. I am thinking I'll take two pens of 5 to the yards next year with a possible small production sale next year. Like always I got my butt kicked on here again. I just think that sometimes the kids in the youth projects never hear the production sied of the story. They don't realize that cattle are made to eat forage and not show fed out of a bag. I stand"put in my place" and will not bother the Camelot way of thinking for at least a couple hours. Long live show cattle. I would think Jamie may be a candidate for ceo for the American Shorthorn Assn (Please make it down the road 10 years). signed the loyal opposition.

(thumbsup)

 

[kfacres]

Why is it when a woman is cattle smart its because her daddy taught her everything but if I guy is cattle smart he was born with it?

Cut the BS- glad you are finding success in what you are doing, but why question someone else's success all the time?
<beer>

Just curious I guess== maybe I should have asked her on FB in a private message-- yet I'm sure I'm not the only one wanting to know...

 

[vanridge]

I think this was decent discussion. I was trying to make the point that the seedstock industry is not a Camelot. Jammie has played the victim card. The poor little rich girl card. No way to win the upcoming assault. No one can beat her daddies record of selling herd bulls. So she cannot lose a debate I guess. I put 6 bulls into commercial herds last year. Durham reds. Just sold two site unseen to a neighbor. I have not purchased a female in 20 years. It is a closed herd. My herd sires were 2 full brothers and their daddy this summer. I am thinking I'll take two pens of 5 to the yards next year with a possible small production sale next year. Like always I got my butt kicked on here again. I just think that sometimes the kids in the youth projects never hear the production sied of the story. They don't realize that cattle are made to eat forage and not show fed out of a bag. I stand"put in my place" and will not bother the Camelot way of thinking for at least a couple hours. Long live show cattle. I would think Jamie may be a candidate for ceo for the American Shorthorn Assn (Please make it down the road 10 years). signed the loyal opposition.

Are you reading the same posts I am reading?! Jamie has not played the poor rich girl card at all. YOU asked her about her creditentials, and she told you. She hasn't backed down from any of your insane attacks. Why can't you admit she is good at what she does. Besides that on what planet do you see her cattle as show cattle. Look at the pictures...they are working cattle, that produce. And yah, if they are good enough to show they take them to a couple. Why? Because that is how a lot of purebred guys get their name out and advertise what they have available.  Its called marketing.It's kinda important when they want to sell bulls to people like us because we need to know what is out there and what is working. As for your comment about kids learning about production, in our local 4-H club we are trying to teach the kids about record keeping. i.e. If you pay this much for a steer and you pay this much for feed than you need to sell him for this much for in order to make a porfit.  Our son gets nothing for free. He has to pay us for the steer and feed and everything that has to do with showing it. AJ nobody "put you in your place" the responses were written the way you attack others. You still havent't counter argued what has been said about cow families to try to prove your point. Maybe you could do that and straighten out all the people on SP

 

[vanridge]

Jamie,
You said that Northern runs a herford herd as well? Are they horned or polled? Do they do any cross breeding with the herford and shorthorn and if they do, how do they look? Is it a good cross? I hear a lot about people liking the crossbreds as replacement heifers but I haven't actually seen a whole lot of them around.

 

[jaimiediamond]

If you want I could continue in what each cow family has done and how I selected them either individually or as a family unit with or without pictures. 

Jamie

I have no question of your ability to breed good cattle; however I would be delighted as I am sure some others would as well if you could include some photos of some
of your cow families and the breeding and selection decisions you have made in your career.

HR

I will start a new topic this week with my cow families and how I have built my current herd.  I just located a picture of my old 29Z cow so I just need to scan her up (as well as many of her offspring)

I think this was decent discussion. I was trying to make the point that the seedstock industry is not a Camelot. Jammie has played the victim card. The poor little rich girl card. No way to win the upcoming assault. No one can beat her daddies record of selling herd bulls. So she cannot lose a debate I guess. I put 6 bulls into commercial herds last year. Durham reds. Just sold two site unseen to a neighbor. I have not purchased a female in 20 years. It is a closed herd. My herd sires were 2 full brothers and their daddy this summer. I am thinking I'll take two pens of 5 to the yards next year with a possible small production sale next year. Like always I got my butt kicked on here again. I just think that sometimes the kids in the youth projects never hear the production sied of the story. They don't realize that cattle are made to eat forage and not show fed out of a bag. I stand"put in my place" and will not bother the Camelot way of thinking for at least a couple hours. Long live show cattle. I would think Jamie may be a candidate for ceo for the American Shorthorn Assn (Please make it down the road 10 years). signed the loyal opposition.

aj I have not pulled a victim card as of yet but you definitely just have. Nor have I discussed my bank balance (or lack there of).  As for my feeding program as we rarely show our cattle (once a year ) so they live off pasture in spring, summer and fall hay or green feed in the winter months.  That goes for the Northern herd as well no grain just pasture and hay.

Jamie,
You said that Northern runs a herford herd as well? Are they horned or polled? Do they do any cross breeding with the herford and shorthorn and if they do, how do they look? Is it a good cross? I hear a lot about people liking the crossbreds as replacement heifers but I haven't actually seen a whole lot of them around.

Northern had a horned Hereford herd that the foundation females came from Hirsche farms.  They have since bred those cows polled to keep things easier on themselves.  I don't believe they have any Cherry reds but the black cow with the Hereford calf is actually a  dark blue roan half Shorthorn and the steer is by the polled Hereford bull.  A great herd to look at for Shorthorn/Hereford crosses is Lucky Spring Farms http://luckyspringsfarms.com/html/cherri_cows.html