Northern Shorthorns Herd Bull

[aj]

Breeding disease.

 

[frostback]

I guess it aint a closed herd then. From a breeding disease standpoint it kinda is. Where did you get definition for closed herd at? If it only takes one to tango on the defect calf my herd is clean cause the one calf was ai'd sired. If it takes 2 and the pedigrees are accuarate I should have minimal herd carriers cause the only way I can match pedigrees up is Improver through a heifer I purchased in a group of 25 around 20 years ago.knock on wood. I could in theory have roughly 7.

I may not be too good with math but it shows that you own a bull born in 2005. A Red Angus bull named LJC Valiant R233. I dont think that is 20 years ago.

 

[aj]

He is not a cow.

 

[frostback]

So if you only keep cows that is a closed herd? Bulls dont count..I guess its a different definition in the US compared to Australia and Canada. Got it.

 

[Okotoks]

I guess it aint a closed herd then. From a breeding disease standpoint it kinda is. Where did you get definition for closed herd at? If it only takes one to tango on the defect calf my herd is clean cause the one calf was ai'd sired. If it takes 2 and the pedigrees are accuarate I should have minimal herd carriers cause the only way I can match pedigrees up is Improver through a heifer I purchased in a group of 25 around 20 years ago.knock on wood. I could in theory have roughly 7.

Closed herd from a genetic standpoint would mean you don't bring in outside bloodlines, either cows or bulls. If the calves leg problem is a genetic defect then the dam would be a carrier too. Which would mean you probably would see more defects if it was a "closed herd". ???

 

[frostback]

Sounds like a marketing ploy to me.

 

[aj]

Valient was a virgin bull so from a disease standpoint I feel like it is pretty closed. Had a neighbor bull breed a heifer that calved here lately though. So I guess..........closed herd since 2005 except for maybe 7 AI calves? That would be more accurate from a genetic standpoint.

 

[thunderdownunder]

Interesting take on the definition of a closed herd. I have always been of the understanding that a closed herd refers to a herd which has not had any other genetics (bulls or females) introduced.

Did a quick google search and this is what I found:

" In normal terminology the term 'closed herd' refers to herds into which no external genetic material is imported. In discussing the mandate, the Working Group agreed, however, that under normal circumstances it is not possible to guarantee that a herd is fully closed without seriously prejudicing the genetic makeup of the herd. A fully closed herd could only be maintained over a relatively short period before further introduction of genetic material proved necessary."

ETA: Also this:
Definition for closed herd:Web definitions: A herd in which no outside breeding stock (cattle) are introduced..

 

[aj]

That should be the working definition then. But if you google closed herd no definition on wikapedia comes up.....however most of the other google deals are breeding disease discussions. Were there 2 Shorthorns on noahs ark? One thing about the Shorthorn breed with all the appendix programs in is not a closed breed.

 

[aj]

A closed herd should be qualified with a time frame of some kind. You could have a closed herd for 50 years or a closed herd for the last 5 minutes or atleast the last calving season.

 

[thunderdownunder]

Yes, because Wikipedia is SO reliable.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

If the only outside animals to come in aj's herd were a bull from one of the top 5 red angus breeders in the world and some AI calves then thats pretty closed to me. Maybe not technically but sheezie petes, thats pretty close. Doesnt EVERY herd have to bring in animals from another breeder when they start? So technically nobody is truly closed. Its just different levels of closed herds. That sounds more like the american way to do it. Its never black and white. It must be evaluated and analysed and voted upon and then a 3000 page report must be written and make sure we leave enough loopholes and room to throw in all the backdoor deals and pork barrel deals. And at the end of the report it will say that more work needs to be done before a final definition can be laid out.

That sounds way better then a clear cut definition.  <beer> <beer>

 

[Doc]

Its just different levels of closed herds.

Is that like being a little bit pregnant?? I mean I thought it was either a closed herd with no outside genetics or it wasn't. I mean if that is the case I've got a closed herd because I haven't bought anything since Schrags sale. Oop's, wait a minute I did buy that semen at Dave Guyers' sale.

 

[aj]

Kinda like being a Christian and getting divorced? Or being a Catholic and voting Democrat?

 

[aj]

Ok ok okkinda like being a Husker fan and approving of Bo Poleni? Oh lord help me I am sick! ;D

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Its just different levels of closed herds.

Is that like being a little bit pregnant?? I mean I thought it was either a closed herd with no outside genetics or it wasn't. I mean if that is the case I've got a closed herd because I haven't bought anything since Schrags sale. Oop's, wait a minute I did buy that semen at Dave Guyers' sale.

exactly Doc! Thats the american way. Just say whatever you need at the time you need it.

Its hard to see sarcasim on the internet.

 

[Okotoks]

So we have people saying it's not a breeding program if there's any outside breeding showing in a 4 generation pedigree and at the same time it's a closed herd even when you introduce a bull from another breed?  ??? 

 

[kfacres]

So we have people saying it's not a breeding program if there's any outside breeding showing in a 4 generation pedigree and at the same time it's a closed herd even when you introduce a bull from another breed?   ??? 

what if your 'herd' is more than one breed? 

Our dairy is comprimisted of all 6 breeds, and has been closed to purchased females since 20 years ago, It has more than one breed, actually a bunch of crossbreeds...

is it closed?

Hey OKO>>> you ignored my pedigrees.. (pop) (lol)

 

[thunderdownunder]

Its just different levels of closed herds.

Is that like being a little bit pregnant?? I mean I thought it was either a closed herd with no outside genetics or it wasn't. I mean if that is the case I've got a closed herd because I haven't bought anything since Schrags sale. Oop's, wait a minute I did buy that semen at Dave Guyers' sale.

<beer>

 

[rarebirdz]

Hmm Aj and tgcc I guess i have a closed herd just bringing in bulls..... news to me