OK Mr Frostbite.....

[Show Heifer]

Jason, I have a "greenhouse" that was converted to a sheep barn. It actually is an old greenhouse frame that we covered with two layers of plastic with air in between. It measures 30 ft wide by 100 ft long. Up four feet was a breathable mesh, and both ends were breathable net. Both ends had sliding doors.
The sheep loved it. Very dry, very bright, and on a sunny winter cold day it could be 0 outside and 30 inside....bedding was minimal since it drys out so well. Pnemonia problems gone due to ventilation.
Only down side: the sheep were flightier (ok, almost wild) due to the fact they seemed like they were in the open. The babies stayed on the flighty side until 30-45 days after removal from greenhouse. Another down side, after about May, it was way too hot for livestock!!!
Cost: frame 500, plastic 600 every 7-8 years.
Hope that answers a few of your questions....let me know!

 

[shorthorns r us]

I have always been really interested in building a "green house". 

Does anyone have any experience with that?

i get a catalog from these folks.  they  have some star trekky looking stuff

http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/home

 

[jason]

I should have been more specific  ;D  -  I was referring to an environmentally friendly house, ie. solar panels, geothermal heating

 

[DL]

I am just too tired to play right now. Moved a bunch of panels by myself then trailered 3 loads home. On my drive home I go through 4 sets of lights and 3 stop sings and everyone trying to get in front of a trailer then turning in front of you with no signal light. Only one person really tried to kill me today. There is no respect for farmers around here.  Got at least 6 more loads tomorrow then preg checking and pouring on Sunday. You guys pick one and I will play when I have the energy.

Hey Mr F - glad you are still alive and kicking and survived your day - I was squished by a cow that outweighed me by more than 20 times and as soon as she realized I was there (kinda like knowing ya got bit by a tick) she moved off but I can fully sympathize with the fatigue - put off ultrasounding nand vaccinating til next week - so when you are back to par you pick the topic - after all it was your request and we aim to please! (cow)

 

[Will]

I am just too tired to play right now. Moved a bunch of panels by myself then trailered 3 loads home. On my drive home I go through 4 sets of lights and 3 stop sings and everyone trying to get in front of a trailer then turning in front of you with no signal light. Only one person really tried to kill me today. There is no respect for farmers around here.  Got at least 6 more loads tomorrow then preg checking and pouring on Sunday. You guys pick one and I will play when I have the energy.

Hey Mr F - glad you are still alive and kicking and survived your day - I was squished by a cow that outweighed me by more than 20 times and as soon as she realized I was there (kinda like knowing ya got bit by a tick) she moved off but I can fully sympathize with the fatigue - put off ultrasounding nand vaccinating til next week - so when you are back to par you pick the topic - after all it was your request and we aim to please! (cow)

I have a question about Johnes?  We have started the process to become Johnes free.  Done the first round of testing (no positives).  We have a bull we are parteners on, if the other owner is not a Johnes free herd, can that bull travel between our herds and we still be Johnes free herd?

 

[knabe]

jason,  geothermal works if you are in a really cold or really hot area.  not really for mediterranean climate.  the only thing i can vouch from personal experience is the geothermal in oklahoma at my cousin's place.  lots of buried tubing filled with antifreeze and moved with a pump and exchanger.  keeps the house constant year round.  it's not free as the pump costs money to drive, but essentially they don't have a heater and only use a wood stove periodically.

personally bulit.  overhangs and shading on roof on southside of house.  tall trees to shade south and south south west side of house.  on overhang dropped the temp of the house 7-9 degrees in the summer.  unless it gets really hot, these work well.  i planted some vertically oriented ash trees to shade the roof and cement areas around the house as well.  this works as well.  also, in the west, most houses were built with insufficient eaves, as no one really thought about efficiency for a period of time.  if you look around though, you can find older houses with longer overhangs, as well as thicker walls and basements.  not real common any more.  the reason the overhangs work is sun angle.  in the summer, the sun is higher and if the entire wall is shaded, the house is cooler.  in the winter, the sun is a little lower, and you get some warming.  another trick is to allow heat to escape from a higher area to keep the air moving.  this can be a little confusing, particularly if you bring in too much hot air from the outside.  that's one reason you plant trees to keep the ground cool where the air comes in and make sure it isn't coming in from off of cement.  also a trick is to allow the sun to penetrate a window that leads to something that can store heat, like a cement floor. in the winter, it will release the heat at night, in the day, take the coolness from the ground.  helps stabilize temp.  biggest bang for the money, shade.  i guess don't forget about double pane windows and argon gas.  the gas really works on the south side by not letting the heat in for a sun room without the heat.  of course they leak over time.  haven't seen any  maintenance, replenishment on them though.

 

[DL]

I have a question about Johnes?  We have started the process to become Johnes free.  Done the first round of testing (no positives).  We have a bull we are parteners on, if the other owner is not a Johnes free herd, can that bull travel between our herds and we still be Johnes free herd?

Good for you!! I applaud anybody with the gumption and foresight to get involved in the JD eradication program! (clapping) (clapping) (clapping)

I posted a bunch of PDFs with pictures written about JD specifically for beef producers - red made them into text (no pictures) - you can search for them or email me and I will send them to you.

To answer your question - the big risk for JD is in youngstock and it is from manure.

What I have done with clients in the same situation is have them wash the bull prior to leaving the "unclean" herd and then wash him again prior to putting him in with your cows. If possible a period of time when the weather is dry and sunny and hot is really nice! Is it over kill, perhaps - BUT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE JD YOU WANT TO DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING NOT TO GET IT - it is a nasty insidious vile disease and people testing and cleaning herds now may be in a position to reap some financial regard once /if there becomes a definite link between JD and Crohns disease in people.

Remember it takes only a dime sized chunk of infected manure to infect a calf

PS - I'd wash the trailer after I hauled the bull too (your work is never done when you try to keep a JD clean and healthy herd!) Hope that answers your question...DL

OH PS - THE BULL SHOULD BE TEST NEGATIVE - IF HE IS POSITIVE FOR JD DO NOT LET HIM ON YOUR FARM!!

 

[Will]

He is negative.  The reason we decided to be proactive is because a major purebred breeder close to us sold several bulls who tested positive.  My vet contacted me and informed me the bulls were close to my place.(The vet and I have a very good relationship.)  One other question can you get Johnes from across the fence.  We have also tested evryting for bovine Lymphoma, which I believe is more serious than most give it credit. 

 

[shorthorns r us]

He is negative.  The reason we decided to be proactive is because a major purebred breeder close to us sold several bulls who tested positive.  My vet contacted me and informed me the bulls were close to my place.(The vet and I have a very good relationship.)  One other question can you get Johnes from across the fence.  We have also tested evryting for bovine Lymphoma, which I believe is more serious than most give it credit. 

what breed were those bulls?

 

[DL]

He is negative.  The reason we decided to be proactive is because a major purebred breeder close to us sold several bulls who tested positive.  My vet contacted me and informed me the bulls were close to my place.(The vet and I have a very good relationship.)  One other question can you get Johnes from across the fence.  We have also tested evryting for bovine Lymphoma, which I believe is more serious than most give it credit. 

Will - if calves are exposed to manure from across the fence they could be exposed - and become infected - it is the babies you need to worry most about. I would also test annually. There are tons of management things you can do to decrease your risk - check out those PDFs

SRU I don't know these precific bulls but no breed is immune and I have seen JD in Angus,, Shorthorn, Hereford, Holstein, Jersey, Limmies, Maine, eared cattle, bucking bulls, crossbreds, goats of all breeds, including Pygmy and JD does infect elk, deer etc....it is a nasty nasty disease

 

[Show Heifer]

Will, I agree, I think BLV is dangerous also....have a "friend' that has a cow that is a carrier and she gets mad at me for not allowing her to wear her boots, or "board" her cows. Heck with that!!!!

DL, do you recommend everyone (ok, what about me?) testing for johnes? Is the test reliable enough to trust it? And what about BLV testing?

 

[DL]

Will, I agree, I think BLV is dangerous also....have a "friend' that has a cow that is a carrier and she gets mad at me for not allowing her to wear her boots, or "board" her cows. Heck with that!!!!

DL, do you recommend everyone (ok, what about me?) testing for johnes? Is the test reliable enough to trust it? And what about BLV testing?

OK start with the easy answer! BLV
It is a virus (bovine leukemia virus) transmitted via blood
About 1% of cow with BLV develop leukemia/lymphoma (and will die)
You can prevent the spread between cows by not using needles more than once, single use sleeves, cleaning any equipment (dehorning, castration etc) that might get blood on it - pretty simple basic biosecurity stuff
BLV is really an issue for people doing exporting of semen or embryos
You can test for it and the test is relatively cheap - but you need a plan if you have BLV + animals what would you do? If you have no plan or it wouldn't change your management IMVHO (that VH is for someone special) it is not worth testing if the test won't change what you do.

Johne's - very complicated - it is all about risk - how much are you willing to take -

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE JD YOU ABSOLUTLEY POSITIVELY DO NOT WANT IT!!!

JD - calves infected primarily at less than 6 months of age - do not show signs of disease for years
one cc of infected manure can infect a calf

bugs live in high concentration in manure - billions of little M paraTB bugs

clinical cases of JD are very very obvious - but by the time you find one it is the tip of the iceberg and you likely have many many others that are not yet clinical

all tests are very accurate when the cow has clinical disease (but heck so are my eyes and nose)

the trick is to find the disease early - the tests are OK for early detection but not fabulous - the use of repeated annual testing significantly decreases your risk of JD  - a single test esp on young stock doesn't tell much

again you need a plan - if you want a JD clean herd and you test with ELISA what will you do with ELISA + animals? retest with fecal (gold standard) - cull immediately - do nothing

if you (generic) are going to the expense of testing you need a long range plan - to ship + animals except the favorite show heifer is a recipe for disaster - do do it half a**ed is a waste of time and money

if you want to know where you stand a whole herd (above 2 years - including bulls, and any animal with weight loss and diarrhea) test (ELISA) is a place to start

buying cattle also becomes an issue since not many producers have become proactive (it is easier to ignore and when a customer calls and says that cow I bought from you has JD - and then you say gee we never had a problem musta got it from a show  (BIG BS!!!) than to do the right thing - it is better to buy from a herd that is tested than one that ignores the issue (from a risk standpoint)

Wakaru, Deiters, Hoffs (and I am sure others) are some of the big operations that test - if Deiters can test hundreds of cows the I can't afford to test 5 cows doesn't hold much water

I test all cows every year and have for a decade - my herd is about as clean as it gets. There are  herds across the country that have an aggressive testing program and have reached the "status level 4" according to USDA - there aren't all that many and there is no central list - there are a couple in Ohio and Raines Angus in PA - I encourage buyers to always ask about JD when buying breeding stock

selling JD infected females (and ignoring the buyers reports) has been the demise of more than one large seedstock operation - IMVHO if you are selling breeding stock you should be concerned about JD

 

[knabe]

I was referring to an environmentally friendly house, ie. solar panels, geothermal heating

jason

here's a couple of neat links.  one is to sunset magazine which always has great ideas and demo houses.  the second is a glass product i haven't seen yet.

http://www.sunset.com/sunset/home/article/0,20633,1666702,00.html
http://www.cabot-corp.com/site/nanogel/final/index.html

 

[Will]

He is negative.  The reason we decided to be proactive is because a major purebred breeder close to us sold several bulls who tested positive.  My vet contacted me and informed me the bulls were close to my place.(The vet and I have a very good relationship.)  One other question can you get Johnes from across the fence.  We have also tested evryting for bovine Lymphoma, which I believe is more serious than most give it credit. 

what breed were those bulls?

Angus

 

[Will]

Will, I agree, I think BLV is dangerous also....have a "friend' that has a cow that is a carrier and she gets mad at me for not allowing her to wear her boots, or "board" her cows. Heck with that!!!!

DL, do you recommend everyone (ok, what about me?) testing for johnes? Is the test reliable enough to trust it? And what about BLV testing?

We lost a cow about 5 years ago and when we had her posted she had tumors and was positive for BLV.  So we panicked.  I called everyone I could to get as much information as possible.  Came to the conclusion that it was something we were going to have to deal with.  The state vet here in Oklahome informed me that though their was no sound information he believed as much as half the cows in the lower part of the US would test positive.  We test bi-annually( to save money).  I have taken measure to remove it but as long as flies exists I will probably have a positive now and again.