Old Shorthorn semen

Help Support Steer Planet:

aj

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
6,423
Location
western kansas
Are the old Shorthorn semen usable? Can you get ai certs and everything on them? I see some leader 9 semen selling the revival sale. Can this be used for flushing and whatnot even if the bull is dead and not dna tested and whatnot?
 

Doc

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
3,636
Location
Cottontown, Tennessee
Didn't have any problems with Ldr 21st semen. Other than the Assoc. charged me $25 for an AI cert. , which I didn't understand.
 

garybob

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
1,634
Location
NW Arkansas
Doc said:
Didn't have any problems with Ldr 21st semen. Other than the Assoc. charged me $25 for an AI cert. , which I didn't understand.
One of the things that helped Angus become a household name among US beef consumers is "open AI''. In other words, no certs.

GB
 

garybob

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
1,634
Location
NW Arkansas
Doc said:
Didn't have any problems with Ldr 21st semen. Other than the Assoc. charged me $25 for an AI cert. , which I didn't understand.
$25 bucks is a small price to pay, when you get better, easier-fleshing offspring than a lot current sires would give you.

GB
 

Doc

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
3,636
Location
Cottontown, Tennessee
garybob said:
Doc said:
Didn't have any problems with Ldr 21st semen. Other than the Assoc. charged me $25 for an AI cert. , which I didn't understand.
$25 bucks is a small price to pay, when you get better, easier-fleshing offspring than a lot current sires would give you.

GB

What I was saying about the $25 was, that the ASA charged me that , when I couldn't figure out who to get an AI cert from . Not the owner. You would think they would have charged the standard $5, instead of jacking up the price .
 

sue

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,906
aj said:
Trev......not me though I might have gone 1500$ on 5 amps.

i  will take $1550/amp for leader 9. I have 2 left?
 

Shorthorns4us

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
321
Location
SW Iowa
I registered my Leader 21st bull this spring and got my A.I. cert from ABS Global for $5-- they were the last owners.
didn't have any problems.

When anyone has any embryos to sell out of these older bulls that trace to Leader 21st- Like Kinnabar 9th, the 6th bull, etc.
Let me know-- I am always in the market to add to my Leader 21st genetic base.

Thanks in advance!
 

knabe

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
13,647
Location
Hollister, CA
Shorthorns4us said:
I registered my Leader 21st bull this spring and got my A.I. cert from ABS Global for $5-- they were the last owners.
didn't have any problems.

When anyone has any embryos to sell out of these older bulls that trace to Leader 21st- Like Kinnabar 9th, the 6th bull, etc.
Let me know-- I am always in the market to add to my Leader 21st genetic base.

Thanks in advance!

your link to the left has one too many i's in it.

http://www.fordfamiilyshorthorns.com/

http://www.fordfamilyshorthorns.com/
 

oakview

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,346
I've always found it interesting what genetics people use and their reason for using them.  Leader 21st and his descendants seem to be the rage for some people today and I don't have a problem with that.  Many of the people using these genetics tout them as easier fleshing, more moderate, etc., while they put down the poplular 'show' genetics of today.  What many people don't know, or are perhaps too young to remember, is that the only reason for Leader 21st's popularity in his day was the show ring.  He was promoted as a growth freak, a huge bull in the day of belt buckle cattle.  In fact, I remember Bob Gordon saying in one of his sale catalogs how he bought Leader 21 for a low price because of this extreme size.  One of his sons, Kinnaber Leader 3rd, was known as 'George the Giant.'  When the indusrty decided they wanted bigger cattle, or at least the show ring decided it, Leader 21 became all the rage.  In the late 60's, you couldn't beat them.  Leader 6th sired some good cattle for the Thomas family in Canada, but never became a household word until R. Lee Johnson got ahold of him.  Thomas Durham 76B, Thomas June 68B, etc. won a lot of trophies for Mill Brook Farm.  I just find it interesting that the throwback cattle people want to use today are only widely known because of the show ring honors they won in their day.  There were easier fleshing, more muscular, better milking cattle than the Leaders available in the 60's, but Leader 21 became widely known because of their popularity in the show ring.  Again, I have no problem with people using Leader 21st or any other genetics they want to use.  We used a lot of Leader 21st and Leader 9th 40 years ago and thought they were great, though I don't think they were ever our best mother cows.  They had growth in their day and show ring appeal and that's what the people that used them wanted. 
 

Shorthorns4us

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
321
Location
SW Iowa
Good points, Oakview.

I am hoping that using the "old" with today's genetic lines will make some new and exciting choices. 
Mother nature will help to determine if using these Leader 21st lines in the cow herd will work at my house.  If cows and heifers don't develop and raise good calves- then they to will go down the road regardless of pedigree.
I am also implementing some Canadian lines into the mix. 
If you want something different- come see me!  LOL ;)
 

Okotoks

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
3,085
oakview said:
I've always found it interesting what genetics people use and their reason for using them.  Leader 21st and his descendants seem to be the rage for some people today and I don't have a problem with that.  Many of the people using these genetics tout them as easier fleshing, more moderate, etc., while they put down the poplular 'show' genetics of today.  What many people don't know, or are perhaps too young to remember, is that the only reason for Leader 21st's popularity in his day was the show ring.  He was promoted as a growth freak, a huge bull in the day of belt buckle cattle.  In fact, I remember Bob Gordon saying in one of his sale catalogs how he bought Leader 21 for a low price because of this extreme size.  One of his sons, Kinnaber Leader 3rd, was known as 'George the Giant.'  When the indusrty decided they wanted bigger cattle, or at least the show ring decided it, Leader 21 became all the rage.  In the late 60's, you couldn't beat them.  Leader 6th sired some good cattle for the Thomas family in Canada, but never became a household word until R. Lee Johnson got ahold of him.  Thomas Durham 76B, Thomas June 68B, etc. won a lot of trophies for Mill Brook Farm.  I just find it interesting that the throwback cattle people want to use today are only widely known because of the show ring honors they won in their day.  There were easier fleshing, more muscular, better milking cattle than the Leaders available in the 60's, but Leader 21 became widely known because of their popularity in the show ring.  Again, I have no problem with people using Leader 21st or any other genetics they want to use.  We used a lot of Leader 21st and Leader 9th 40 years ago and thought they were great, though I don't think they were ever our best mother cows.  They had growth in their day and show ring appeal and that's what the people that used them wanted. 
Oakview makes a lot of good points about the Leader cattle. At the time there were several things driving the use of Leader bloodlines. The European breeds were just arriving and their size, muscling and performance were getting a lot of attention. Interestingly enough calving ease was not a concern with the imports even though a lot of farmers had never had a c section before their arrival. Later the pressure was on the “Exotics” to address this problem and most of them did but in the late 60’s and early 70’s the new rage was size. As usual the show ring had driven the selection and the Scotch shorthorn had been selected to belt buckle size (as had the Angus and Hereford). The search was on for bigger and TPS Coronet Leader 21st was bigger and as Oakview says the Leaders dominated the show ring. He was also used in some huge commercial herds with some really good results.(used in herds where they AI’d several thousand head to him) There had always been a reluctance on the part of most Scotch breeders to use polled blood but this changed with the search for new pedigrees. There were a few polled breeders in Western Canada who were able to capitalize on the sudden interest in their bloodlines. The Leader bloodline was actually from Thieman’s polled shorthorns in the US and they and a couple of other polled US herds saw a huge increase in demand for their stock. In Canada most herds put at least one Leader bull in their herd bull battery. There were other good cattle out there both horned and polled but they were passed over due to the Leader success in the show ring. I think the introduction of Leader blood back into some of our modern bloodlines will work quite nicely but I think breeders should look around as well for those herds with good cattle that maybe don’t show a lot. I also think he may have been big in the 60’s but not compared to most Shorthorns today, selection has brought us a long way. He and some of the older bloodlines will almost certainly introduce better marbling. There are genetic gold mines all over if we look. Unfortunately by the time we realize it a lot of them are gone.
 

garybob

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
1,634
Location
NW Arkansas
From the sidelines, it appears to me that people are using him (Leader 21st X) to tone down the extreme frame size, growth and most importantly, MATURE COW SIZE, and BIRTH WEIGHT that the Shorthorn breed accidently bred themselves into. This is not an insult to anyone's program. It was just something that happenned as a result of Cattlemen following both Industry and Academia's suggestions. Hear me out on this before you tell me to go clock back-in at the Chicken Plant.
As JIT has said, it was pressure from the Packing and Feeding Industries, as well as Nutritionists and even the Grain Companies ( when corn and soybean meal were cheap, MasterMix, MFA, ADM, Cargill, Central Soya, etc, were pushing "proper nutrition" for growth genetics) that got us here.

It wasn't just the show ring. It was the Industry, as well.

GB

 

r.n.reed

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
611
I have infused a particular Antique bull in my herd for the following reasons,C.E. 79%ACC top 1%of breed,B.W. 80%acc.top 1%,REA 68%acc.top 15%,MARB.69%acc.top 3%,7.00 corn,a pedigree built by breeders of large scale cowherds which would mean functional to me,A minimal amount of post 1940 scotch breeding and some linebreeding.Never really checked into the show angle.
]
 

garybob

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
1,634
Location
NW Arkansas
r.n.reed said:
I have infused a particular Antique bull in my herd for the following reasons,C.E. 79%ACC top 1%of breed,B.W. 80%acc.top 1%,REA 68%acc.top 15%,MARB.69%acc.top 3%,7.00 corn,a pedigree built by breeders of large scale cowherds which would mean functional to me,A minimal amount of post 1940 scotch breeding and some linebreeding.Never really checked into the show angle.
]
Would that particular bull be the sire of the bull you share with Lovings?

GB
 

colosteers

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
93
If I remember correctly( I was just a kid at this time),  Leader 21 was very popular and in his glory when the first Irish arrived.  Irish were taller and more competive with the exotics-- which probably killed leader 21 popularity.

Have a good one
 

Okotoks

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
3,085
colosteers said:
If I remember correctly( I was just a kid at this time),  Leader 21 was very popular and in his glory when the first Irish arrived.   Irish were taller and more competive with the exotics-- which probably killed leader 21 popularity.

Have a good one
Actually when the Irish arrived the Australian genetics, Graham bloodlines and the dual, milking bloodlines were the most popular.The Leaders had been used a lot and everyone was searching for something to give even more size and height. Mandalong Royal Ambassador, Mandalong Super Flag, Mandalong Super Elephant, Dandaloo Royal Duke, Columbus, Clark, Canadian Image, Banner Royal Oak, were all popular and then the Irish made a huge impact.
 
Top