PB Maine Bulls on Shorthorns

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Weezie

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I think it's kind of interesting to see what everyone comes up with in regards to which PB Maine bulls would work on shorthorns now. Red Advantage and Cunia among others have made a huge impact on shorthorns. I'm wondering what other PB Maine bulls y'all think could work now. Also what kind of cows said bulls would work best on. I'm interested to see what everyone thinks.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Vistas Sentra was used heavily by Harold Hoskins and was the sire of many "Shorthorn females" including Exclusives Carrie-the nat jr show reserve champ I got to flush her but the embryos ended up with a PUNK in Indiana who claimed he couldnt find them He was a big bull and thick-very pretty fronted for a maine, Worked on bigger stout dual Irishx (simm and char posing as Shorthorns) They were really growthy and made good cows not low bw  O0
 

doc-sun

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Weezie said:
I think it's kind of interesting to see what everyone comes up with in regards to which PB Maine bulls would work on shorthorns now. Red Advantage and Cunia among others have made a huge impact on shorthorns. I'm wondering what other PB Maine bulls y'all think could work now. Also what kind of cows said bulls would work best on. I'm interested to see what everyone thinks.
YUKON WILL WORK AND IS A REGISTERED 3/4 SHORTHORN.
 

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RyanChandler

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What would be the purpose?  Maine’s certainly don’t improve any of the positive traits Shorthorns are known for.  Improve Milk? nope, fertility nope, marbling nope.  And there’s definitely truer outcrosses over Shorthorns if you’re looking at it from a terminal perspective. 

Red advantage has made little to no impact on the breed as a whole.  In fact I know of no purebred breeders that would even consider using him. 

Cunia obviously made a name for himself but you’re talking about a bull born 50 years ago.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Red Advantage and Proud jazz (everybodies favorite target like Double Stuff because he brought the breed back to life) injected a much needed and huge turnaround in several important traits BWs being first which were just out of hand and still are-In spite of the posistive traits and results from the cattle going back to "THAT RED MAINE FROM B GOOD THE EX SHORTHORN GUY" -There are so many legitimate cattle that go back to both of  them its tough for me to believe you would make a statement like that
https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=MA377219  Ive known people and have used the progeny of full bloods for 35 years.They added grow-much needed thickness to the bony hardoing DAIRY RATS. A lot of the resulting cows kicked out prodigious numbers of embryos A Maine also sired Enticer-by way of attrition the most influential performance line ever.It took a few generations to turn him from just another cow killer to the predominate NON SHOW commercial oriented blood in the breed, Like it or not-thats what some of the other Maine bulls or descendents are doing right now under your nose Walk out in your feild and feel the pride Bucko because everybody with numbers cattle have descendents of him You do realize that those monster thick whale butted 2000 pound maine cows in France get milked every day.Red Alert was a bad deal -as far as milk and alot of other things-That does not negate the entire breed for anyone with a modicum of experience around cattle.And the ability to realize that everything related to breeding cattle  is a building block and a work in progress O0
 

RyanChandler

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How far would you have to go back in Jazz’ pedigree to find a fullblood Maine- 6 generations? Maybe more?

I’m sure the Maines do add grow and thickness over Shorthorn cows.  But if you’re going to crossbreed (over SH cows) why not use a genuine outcross like Charolais or Limosine?  With Maine’s and Shorthorns sharing Durham blood, you can do better in terms of creating hybrids.

No doubt there’s some dual purpose Maine’s in France still being milked.  But with those cattle having little to no relation to those in discussion here, I’m not sure the significance of mentioning them.
 

knabe

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-XBAR- said:
No doubt there’s some dual purpose Maine’s in France still being milked.  But with those cattle having little to no relation to those in discussion here, I’m not sure the significance of mentioning them.


there probably isn't.  some of the original imports had milking records.


this bull took it all, and i mean all, away.


http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=20352036&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=59245C5B2359262423&9=515F585B


the animals in his pedigree were not known for taking away all that milk. it is some odd combo he has.


he was first animal that had a lower flank, so he was widely used till people figured out daughters didn't milk, then his use dried up.


unfortunately he is in limited edition and sooner, but known for filling up a thimble maybe half way.

 

knabe

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-XBAR- said:
No doubt there’s some dual purpose Maine’s in France still being milked.  But with those cattle having little to no relation to those in discussion here, I’m not sure the significance of mentioning them.


there probably isn't.  some of the original imports had milking records.


this bull took it all, and i mean all, away.


http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=20352036&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=59245C5B2359262423&9=515F585B


the animals in his pedigree were not known for taking away all that milk. it is some odd combo he has.


he was first animal that had a lower flank, so he was widely used till people figured out daughters didn't milk, then his use dried up.


unfortunately he is in limited edition and sooner, but known for filling up a thimble maybe half way.
 

mark tenenbaum

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The whole idea is to continue the Durham genetics from 2 directions-sources thats why I wouldnt use a Charolais etc looking for an eventual purebred Nothing will change a shorthorn for better or worse than a Maine The interaction of the genetics can be very good in terms of what I want And ive seen and done that for 35 years  Even the late model Angus Related bulls like Red Advantage-and his many descendents do what they are purported to do in real life Not like some absurd claim that Solution crossed on a Salute cow produced a 0 BW bull or heifer There again-Angus Shorthorn has always been an all or nothing cross which worked alot of the time-they are genetically related though not as closely as fullbloods And some of the most prolific embryo producing cows in the breed went back to Maine-Irish OR BOTH Proud Jazz is just an example of the "purists' in the breed who cannot wait to bash any Shorthorn that commercial or other cattle people would use-IDIOTS ALL FULLBLOOD MAINES STARTED OUT AS DUAL PURPOSE. MOST OF THE ONES IN FRANCE STILL ARE. 40 plus years changed them over here-but the best remaining fullbloods in Canada-where some of Doc Suns good cattle come from are introducing French genetics once again
 

mark tenenbaum

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Hey Knabe Vistas  Sentra daughters DAMN SURE milked and I saw a number of them still producing over 15 years of age. You looked him up once before,He was Calf Champ at Denver back in the day -I never saw him but enough progeny to say he really worked best on stout deep ribbed cows-But the big ones out of him like Carrie really had a cool look -They were just huge well over a ton Studley was actually her son-He won Louisville and Denver and was actually a very easy calver and only around 23-2400 pounds O0
 

Doc

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-XBAR- said:
Red advantage has made little to no impact on the breed as a whole.  In fact I know of no purebred breeders that would even consider using him. 

I would say that Red Advantage has made an impact in the breed. Look at his son Red Reward.
 

mark tenenbaum

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You are preaching to the choir-I rattled on about that a couple lines up at least twice LOL-And i think he was certainly the premier accomplishment for Tim Louden then  Sullivan-RE creating a line of  functional cattle that show and can work in the field-Right there with Hot Commodity O0
 

Weezie

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Sorry should have prefaced that this post was meant to address the show perspective. That being said A lot of our good cows have some Maine blood in them. Our Pansy cow family goes back to a Loudon cow with some Maine. We also have a lot of Coleen influence in our herd and she is out of a Maine bull.  It got me thinking about some Maine bulls that may work on Shorthorns now.

You may disagree with me but Red Reward has made an influence on the breed. Sully experimented with Red Advantage and got Red Reward, Red Demand, among others. Looking back at some animals that made an impact on the show world I'd say there's a decent amount that have had some Maine in them. Trump, Vortec, Double Stuff, T90, are just a few. The Maine's that have been grandfathered in the registry are 3/4 which has been the appealing aspect to many. Cross a Charolais with a Shorthorn you have a 1/2 blood calf. Put a PB Maine on a Shorthorn you have a 7/8 shorthorn. To me there is value in that percentage game to get the end product you want quicker.

Just some thoughts. I appreciate everyone's input. I'm enjoying the suggestions. Are there any shorthorn influenced calves out of Yukon?
 

Weezie

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What was the deal on Just Rite? What did he work well on? For reference most of my cows are sound, have plenty of belly and pretty fronted. Wondered what Maines would work on that type of cow
 

Doc

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Weezie said:
What was the deal on Just Rite? What did he work well on? For reference most of my cows are sound, have plenty of belly and pretty fronted. Wondered what Maines would work on that type of cow

I know Martindell Shorthorns got along real well with Just Rite. I still have a cane of semen on him.
 

oakview

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I have had good luck with Cunia, Dollar II, Etula, Epinal, Capone, Covino III, and DJ Data Bank.  I haven't used any of them for years, but may dig them out of the tank again someday.  The calves sired by them may not be pencil necked enough to win big time heifer shows.
 

Medium Rare

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I had a Yukon bull calf out of a non show ring shorthorn. He added muscle mass and expression from end to end. I try not to sell very many bulls, but he caught the eye of everyone who stopped to look and if he hadn't had a white patch above his flank on one side he would have sold much quicker. BW was not much different from the rest of her pure shorthorn calves, but he was noticeably thicker at weaning and as a yearling than they were. I hope to eventually try him on a few more cows, probably Irish based, in order to get the female I think he should be able to throw.

I know some people are starting to think Red Reward has been used on everything under the sun and they're looking for something new, but I don't know what full blood bull would get you close to what Red Reward is doing via Red Avantage. I have 3 or 4 Red Reward calves on the ground now that I still find really interesting after browsing the aisle of the recent shows.
 

oakview

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The original fullblood Maine bulls excel in performance, muscling, and bone compared to the Red Advantage line cattle, in my opinion.  I purchased shares in Red Savior, Red Power, and Propel and also have a grandson of Red Reward I've been using.  The Red Advantage line calves would be smaller at birth, prettier fronted, and generally more stylish, along with being polled for the most part.  Maybe I should try a fullblood Maine on my Red Advantage line females some day.   
 

aj

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Would the Maines be closer related to the Shorthorns than say the Angus breed. Aren't the "British breeds" all related way back.
 
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