in regard to the * in shorties, I was just going off memory. about five years ago, i seriously looked at double registering all of my eligible red and white Maines as 3/4 Shorthorn. My memory tells me that at that time, after either 4 or 5 crosses with a non-* PB, an animal became a non-* PB, ie. cow 701 would be a 3/4 with a * her calves sired by PB Shortie bull (PBSB) would result in a 7/8 appendix calf, then those 7/8 females bred to PBSB2 would have calves that were 15/16 PB with a *, then after 2 more such breedings, the resultant animal would loose the *. In essence, the 63/64 calf sired by a PB, with solely PB influenced genetics, would be as pure as a "fullblood." Now what I've been told is that in the 70s, that the original appendix breeding resulted as so - if an F1 started a tree, then after 4 more successive matings sired by fullbloods, then the resultant animal should be genetically similar to a fullblood. This is where the Maine and Simmentals required a PB bull to be 15/16, while the female only need be 7/8 to achieve PB status.
In my opinion, by rights, a Maine should only have halfblood status in the Shorthorn breed as Maines originated from the Durham and Mancelle.
This also contributes to Red's question, I've been told that genetics removed 5 generations from a parent or bloodline are considered outcross. Also, genetics need to run parallel rather than form an X in a pedigree, because an X will ultimately result in a terminal animal. I will give examples of this, but the basis or these statements is knowledge handed down that was provided at Curtiss Breeders seminars in the 70s.
Here a 5 generation example.
- in 1971 a cow sired by Bysantin was born, two years later she has a calf by Cunia, then the 3/4 has a calf by Epinal, then the 7/8 has a calf by Iralin. Then Iralin daughter was bred to Etula. The animal would be a 15/16 (which is irrelevant), but could then freely be bred back to Bysantin genetics. The issue is that the Novino genetics are not 4 or 5 generations apart which falls into linebreeding, but since Etulas MGS is Novino and Epinals PGS is Novino, they are parallel, so it's "OK."
The X example - breed a Pannell's Direct Draft son to an animal that comes from the 4072 family.
This is barnyard knowledge based on real life experience. I have no documentation to support this, I just know it holds true and if someone can point me to actual documentation that discusses or supports this, I am open to it.
Also a comment on the Angus and Hereford comments. It is known among Angus breeders that Holstiens were used in the 50s to add milk to Angus cattle, consequently, I think it effected their dispositions too. In the Hereford world, one known example was a bull by the name of Titan. It was actually discovered who the Simmental sire was. Titan was a registered Hereford bull that was pulled from the books as was any of his registered ancestors.
