pha positive question

[Gargan]

has anyone ever heard of a cow giving birth naturally to a pha positive calf? Or have all the cases uve heard of been takin out by c-section? Thanx

 

[STAL19]

We have had 2, and neither were c-sections. The first one had to be cut out peices at a time. The cow died a week later. The second one we just pulled out regularly

 

[Gargan]

thanks for the reply, there is nothing fun about these things. I had 1  a few yrs ago and it was out of a 3rd calver and had to be takin out the side. It was a huge gash to get the calf out and she never recovered. thanks again. glad u saved 1 of the cows

 

[RankeCattleCo]

Are you talking PHA CARRIER or HAS THE PHA DISEASE?

I'm confused as to what you're asking...

But then again it's me..  (lol)

 

[Gargan]

Are you talking PHA CARRIER or HAS THE PHA DISEASE?

I'm confused as to what you're asking...

But then again it's me..  (lol)

        we are talkin the true blue, deformed, pha positive calf. I will picture the 1 I had in 09

 

[RankeCattleCo]

Well now I know I'm staying away from PHA....  (lol)

 

[DLD]

We had one born unassissted. Not sure it really counts because it had to have been at least two to three weeks early (naturally bred) but it had a full hair coat, and appeared (as far as we could tell anyway) to be close to full term maturity wise.  I guess this one was just starting to fill with fluid, we never thought to weigh it, but it didn't appear to weigh more than 100#.  That one was born before I'd ever heard of PHA, nor had any of the half dozen vets or anyone else that I asked about it.  Looking back though, I'm sure that it was because it looked the part and was certainly bred to be (out of a Payback daughter and an NFL son (so a Draft Pick grandson)).

The only other one we ever had came out the back, but in pieces.  The cow survived, but never bred back.  Bred the same way, also before we knew better, but by the time she had it we knew what it was and why it happened.

 

[moodog5]

So after all the talk about the pha positive calves what about the TH positive calves?

 

[cornish]

So after all the talk about the pha positive calves what about the TH positive calves?

they slide right out...  most I'd bet are born easier than a slight pull or unassisted.

 

[OH Breeder]

So after all the talk about the pha positive calves what about the TH positive calves?

In what way are you asking? Dystocia with TH effected calves is dependent on the severity of malformation and position of the calf. It's a sad state of affairs when they are alive and live. Some will  be born live even with hernias and deformities in their extremities. You don't want of those either. Waste of a pregnancy to feed care for momma cow and loose baby after 9 months. There is no salvage value in the deformed calf.

 

[CAB]

So after all the talk about the pha positive calves what about the TH positive calves?

PPL in general don't seem to be as scared to use TH carrier bulls on clean cows or vice versa B/C you are not putting the cow in as much risk if you happen to get a THP calf, ( which you shouldn't if you know the status of your cows & bulls). THP calves will still be a loss & as OB said with feed costs and other costs , you can't afford too many mistakes. The odds are the same for both defects as far as the percentages of getting carrier offspring & carriers mated to carriers will result in the same percentages of sacrificed calves, but PHP calves can result in losing both calf & cow plus usually involve a c-section to get the calf out.

 

[kidsandkows]

We had a PHA this year too that was a natural delivery out of a heifer but I think it came 2 to 3 weeks early too. I knew the bull was a carrier but I did not think the heifer carried it in her lineage so I did not test her. Anyway the calf was definately deformed but size wise was fairly normal looking (maybe 60-70 lbs) but when you went to pick it up it was easily 100 lbs cuz all the fluids. We are super lucky i know.

 

[DL]

We had a PHA this year too that was a natural delivery out of a heifer but I think it came 2 to 3 weeks early too. I knew the bull was a carrier but I did not think the heifer carried it in her lineage so I did not test her. Anyway the calf was definately deformed but size wise was fairly normal looking (maybe 60-70 lbs) but when you went to pick it up it was easily 100 lbs cuz all the fluids. We are super lucky i know.

Yeah you were lucky - you could have lost the calf and the heifer - just goes to show the importance of testing your female when using a carrier bull - although (as most of you old guys know from years past) I would never knowingly use a carrier bull of any known lethal recessive genetic defect. Cost of testing is nothing compared to the cost of a dead calf and carrying a cow that does not have a calf

For those of you who may not have seen the video CS of a PHA calf here is part 1
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bsu7tvjMUM

 

[ZNT]

We had a PHA this year too that was a natural delivery out of a heifer but I think it came 2 to 3 weeks early too. I knew the bull was a carrier but I did not think the heifer carried it in her lineage so I did not test her. Anyway the calf was definately deformed but size wise was fairly normal looking (maybe 60-70 lbs) but when you went to pick it up it was easily 100 lbs cuz all the fluids. We are super lucky i know.

[size=10pt]Yeah you were lucky - you could have lost the calf and the heifer - just goes to show the importance of testing your female when using a carrier bull - although (as most of you old guys know from years past) I would never knowingly use a carrier bull of any known lethal recessive genetic defect. Cost of testing is nothing compared to the cost of a dead calf and carrying a cow that does not have a calf

For those of you who may not have seen the video CS of a PHA calf here is part 1

At this point in the video, you are only trying to save the cow so she can be taken to the packers to pay the vet bill.  No good at all, but great video.

 

[DL]

yes ZNT and here is part 2
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_CA2qr17n8