Question about Deerpark Imrpover 57

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aj

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jit...I assume ready go is in ampules....how would you compare him to say leader 21. I have a 1100# cow that I was considering flushing...I would like to get a old school frame 4 or 5 old beef bull calf out of her that would fit in say the "Kit Pharo" type cattle. How was go's disposition?
 

justintime

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Ready Go is in ampules, but I just heard last week that there is some in straws that was collected for South America. We sold a pile of him to Brazil, Uruaguay and Argentina in the 70s... well, sold is not really the right word. We sent over 1000 doses of Ready Go with a semen company who was established in the S American market..... only they forgot to pay us . Our deal was that we were to get 70% they were to get 30%. They said they could not collect the money from the breeders who had used the semen. That is a story for another day... or another chapter in my book.... haha.

Ready Go had a great disposition and his calves are the same. They are all polled and he calves easily. They have good muscle shape and are moderate in size. We have semen that is still exportable as it has never left the stud. ( I have been paying storage for 35 years.... no wonder I am always wondering why I can't get ahead!!)
 

stick

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jit, what can you tell us about the IDS Improver 2K bull? Who owned him? I'm having a brain fart right now. I think it was Gary something from either Neb, or SD maybe?
 

garybob

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stick said:
jit, what can you tell us about the IDS Improver 2K bull? Who owned him? I'm having a brain fart right now. I think it was Gary something from either Neb, or SD maybe?
Right now, I think Bob Blakemore in Greenfield, Missouri has the ''semen bank'' on IDS Improver 2K.

GB
 

justintime

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Actually I was one of the owners of IDS Improver 2K ( Darth Vader), when he was born. When my two partners and I decided to import some Irish Shorthorns from Ireland, we started a partnership that we called the Irish Drovers ( there was an popular Irish band at the time called the Irish Rovers, and our name was a take off of their's).
The Irish government sponsored a sale of Irish Shorthorn cattle at Curt Rodgers sale barn outside Kansas City and we purchased 6 bred females in this sale. The Irish government paid the costs of flying these cattle into the US and sponsored the sale, and paid for several of the Irish breeders to come to the sale. ( Can you imagine any government doing this today?) This was held in March 1978. The 6 females we purchased had 4 bulls and 2 heifers of which all the bulls were sons of Deerpark Improver and the two heifers were daughters of Deerpark Dividend. By the way, this is the sale in which the dam of Leggs was sold. We were runner up bidders on her as well, and not buying her has been a regret of mine for many years. I remember Leggs dam very well. She was a more moderate Irish female and would be a candidate for a model Shorthorn female today.
We were never able to get any of these cattle into Canada, so we ended up putting them out on shares in Illinois. At the time, cattle coming into Canada required two free tests for Bluetongue and we could not get two clean tests on all the cattle. We would have one clean test and on the second test, one would go suspicious or positive, and we would have to start over. After 7 months with these cattle sitting 1/2 mile south of the Canada/ US border, we decided to send them to Illinois. We leased them out for two years and then sold them to Don Cagwin, then repurchased them from Cagwin a year later, then resold back to Cagwin, then purchased them back a second time from him, as we had a guy in Texas who was interested in buying them. Looking back, I now wish we had tried to import these cattle one or two at a time into Canada, rather than trying to bring them in all together. These 5 females were very outstanding individuals and were from some of the very best Irish bloodlines.

Back to your question about IDS Improver 2K. He was an Improver son from a great cow named Deerpark Strawberry 11th by Deerpark Leader. He was probably the biggest framed of the 4 bull calves we had that year. His mother was a tremendous cow. We sold him as a yearling bull to Gary Englehorn( Bur Oaks,Inc) , Olivet, South Dakota. We also sold another of these bulls , IDS Improver 3K to Gordon Brockmueller, Freeman, SD on the same day as 2K was sold. A few weeks later, another bull, IDS Improver 4K was sold to Bill Smithers, Pittsfield, ILL. All of these bulls worked well in the herds that bought them.
Two or three years after Gary Englehorn purchased Improver 2K, he sold his farm in S Dakota and moved to a farm in Missouri. I did not hear much of him after that move. I believe that Kevin VanderWal, Volga, SD, who raises Shorthorns there,  is a nephew of Gary Engelhorn. Maybe he would know where you could find some Darth Vader semen.
 

justintime

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GaryBob, I think you are exactly right. I believe that Gary Engelhorn sold Darth Vader ( a part or the entire bull, I cannot remember now) to Bob Blakemore. I think I have heard before that he still had semen.. at least he had some a few years ago.
 

garybob

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justintime said:
Actually I was one of the owners of IDS Improver 2K ( Darth Vader), when he was born. When my two partners and I decided to import some Irish Shorthorns from Ireland, we started a partnership that we called the Irish Drovers ( there was an popular Irish band at the time called the Irish Rovers, and our name was a take off of their's).
The Irish government sponsored a sale of Irish Shorthorn cattle at Curt Rodgers sale barn outside Kansas City and we purchased 6 bred females in this sale. The Irish government paid the costs of flying these cattle into the US and sponsored the sale, and paid for several of the Irish breeders to come to the sale. ( Can you imagine any government doing this today?) This was held in March 1978. The 6 females we purchased had 4 bulls and 2 heifers of which all the bulls were sons of Deerpark Improver and the two heifers were daughters of Deerpark Dividend. By the way, this is the sale in which the dam of Leggs was sold. We were runner up bidders on her as well, and not buying her has been a regret of mine for many years. I remember Leggs dam very well. She was a more moderate Irish female and would be a candidate for a model Shorthorn female today.
We were never able to get any of these cattle into Canada, so we ended up putting them out on shares in Illinois. At the time, cattle coming into Canada required two free tests for Bluetongue and we could not get two clean tests on all the cattle. We would have one clean test and on the second test, one would go suspicious or positive, and we would have to start over. After 7 months with these cattle sitting 1/2 mile south of the Canada/ US border, we decided to send them to Illinois. We leased them out for two years and then sold them to Don Cagwin, then repurchased them from Cagwin a year later, then resold back to Cagwin, then purchased them back a second time from him, as we had a guy in Texas who was interested in buying them. Looking back, I now wish we had tried to import these cattle one or two at a time into Canada, rather than trying to bring them in all together. These 5 females were very outstanding individuals and were from some of the very best Irish bloodlines.

Back to your question about IDS Improver 2K. He was an Improver son from a great cow named Deerpark Strawberry 11th by Deerpark Leader. He was probably the biggest framed of the 4 bull calves we had that year. His mother was a tremendous cow. We sold him as a yearling bull to Gary Englehorn( Bur Oaks,Inc) , Olivet, South Dakota. We also sold another of these bulls , IDS Improver 3K to Gordon Brockmueller, Freeman, SD on the same day as 2K was sold. A few weeks later, another bull, IDS Improver 4K was sold to Bill Smithers, Pittsfield, ILL. All of these bulls worked well in the herds that bought them.
Two or three years after Gary Englehorn purchased Improver 2K, he sold his farm in S Dakota and moved to a farm in Missouri. I did not hear much of him after that move. I believe that Kevin VanderWal, Volga, SD, who raises Shorthorns there,  is a nephew of Gary Engelhorn. Maybe he would know where you could find some Darth Vader semen.
JIT, Bob Blakemore in Missouri has an extensive inventory of 'darth vader' semen. Call him up.

GB
 

JoeBnTN

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If it's determined that he's TH free I'm sure there's a market for the semen.  We used him on a variety of cows but he seemed to work best on the dual bred cows- especially daughters of Clark.  The calves were moderate at birth, VERY vigorous and had some style to them.  We showed several and got along very well with all of them - one even stood second at Louisville in the Jr. Show to Greeley's National Champion.  Most importantly they made great cows.  Big but not huge, long sided, especially long hipped, with a lot of capacity, very easy doing - my only complaint was udder quality.  One of our all time time money making cows was a Darth Vadar X Clark female. 

If you find some semen and it's for sale, let me know I might just take a chance on him again.  He sure beats some of the +8 lb. BW bulls we've got to choose from now.
 

garybob

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JoeBnTN said:
If it's determined that he's TH free I'm sure there's a market for the semen.  We used him on a variety of cows but he seemed to work best on the dual bred cows- especially daughters of Clark.  The calves were moderate at birth, VERY vigorous and had some style to them.  We showed several and got along very well with all of them - one even stood second at Louisville in the Jr. Show to Greeley's National Champion.  Most importantly they made great cows.  Big but not huge, long sided, especially long hipped, with a lot of capacity, very easy doing - my only complaint was udder quality.  One of our all time time money making cows was a Darth Vadar X Clark female. 

If you find some semen and it's for sale, let me know I might just take a chance on him again.  He sure beats some of the +8 lb. BW bulls we've got to choose from now.
I called Bob Blakemore. He has semen for sale, in straws. It's stored at Genex in Strafford, MO (down south, in the Ozarks, by Springfield). Bob told me to post his phone number and address.

Bob Blakemore
162 E US Hwy 160
Greenfield, Missouri, 65661
(417) 637-2778

Had a good, long chat with Bob. He's using Waukaru bulls, now.

GB
 

Shorthorn_Junkie

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Tennessee
JIT,

I noticed that semen on your full Irish Bull, "HC Mist's Return 13R" is available in Canada only.  I was wondering if you are planning on making it available down here in the States eventually.  I really do like his momma. 

I also would be curious to hear your thoughts on old "Guinness" and "Deerpark Leader 18th".

Thanks.

SJ 

 

justintime

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We may have to consider collecting Mist's Return again as there have been a few requests from the US and also from Ireland. Apparently the Irish breeders are looking for some original Irish Bloodlines. The Deerpark herd is basically gone now. John Maloney's Highfield herd is now gone, and it was the biggest herd in Ireland with well over 150 cows at one time. A few years ago, the Highfield herd was almost entirely lost when Brucellosis broke out in Ireland. Several other herds had high depopulation rates as well. If we decide to recollect Mist's Return, it will not be until next fall as there is not enough time now before breeding season to get him tested and cleared for US qualified semen.

Mist's Return is not a big bull, and he is one of the most unusual bulls I have seen from the Irish lines. He is moderate framed, and quite thick made. He is a dream bull to use on heifers as his calves have the shortest gestation length I have ever seen in a Shorthorn bull. In two years of using him on our heifers, we have not assisted a birth from him. His calves are also very moderate in frame, and they have crazy amounts of hair. Last night I had a heifer calve to him. I checked her at 11:30 pm and I knew that she was thinking of calving, so I snoozed on the couch for awhile and checked again at 1:30 am, and the calf was running around the pen and had already sucked the heifer out. That is the way I like to calve heifers. 

Mist's Return is sired by Highfield Irish Mist, who also had a shorter gestation length than some other bulls, but I do not think he was as short as his son 13R. When we were running both Irish Mist and Duke of Dublin as herd sires, there was 12 days difference between them on gestation length, with Mist being the shortest of the two.
Irish Mist was sired by Deerpark Leader 18th and his dam was Highfield Una 3rd. Una 3rd was a white cow that I will never forget. I never saw her in person, but I saw several pictures of her and she was one beautiful cow. She had an absolutely perfect udder, and this is probably why Irish Mist cleaned up some of the worst udders here in Canada. Back in that day, there were still some of those really bad udders in some herds, yet I never saw an Irish Mist daughter with a poor udder.

Over the years, I have had many herd bulls on this place, but I consider Irish Mist to be a once in a lifetime bull. He was a bull that could breed an incredible number of females each year. He often settled over 100 cows a breeding season, as three of us were using him . One of my partners, moved to northern BC so some years he would settle over 100 cows with a 1100 mile trip in the middle of the breeding season. At age 13, he could walk with any bull around, and he still looked about 5 years old. He actually looked much better after he got to be about 10 years old. We lost him in his 13th year, with a twisted gut. He died on the operating table at the Vet college in Saskatoon, of a massive heart attack , while the surgery was taking place. Irish Mist had perfect feet, and never was trimmed. Feet were one of the major issues with many Irish cattle.Even today, some of the best cattle I find in Canada have Irish Mist woven into their pedigrees numerous times. For exampple, our Saskvalley Pioneer 126P bull, who was 2006 Canadian National Champion, has Irish Mist 8 times in his extended pedigree. He also has Huberdale Mastercharge 8 times in his pedigree and Ready Go 7 times. Mastercharge was sired by Deerpark Improver 52nd, who was a full brother to the 57th.

Deerpark Leader 18th was a great female sire. Deerpark Leader 18th and Deerpark Leader 4th are in my opinion, the best two Irish bulls from the  Deerpark Leader line. I saw Leader 18th many times when he was at Ron Hofstrand's in N Dakota. He was an old bull then but he really worked in this herd. Leader 18th stamped his calves alike, and he probably sired better females than bulls. There were some sons of Leader 18th that really helped some herds though. It is very unfortunate that Leader 18th did not come to North America sooner, as he arrived near the end of the Irish era. By the time his calves hit the ground here, we were starting into the Ayatollah period when frame was all that mattered. In some ways Leader 18th cattle got lost in the craze for sheer size.

Deerpark Improver 2 ( Guinness) was a good bull and he appears in the pedigree of many good cattle. Guinness had some birth weight issues , but not all his calves had big birth weights. He was maybe a more hit and miss sire in regards to birth weights of his calves and in the quality of his calves. When you found a good Guinness calf, it was usually really good. Some of his offspring were a little coarser made, but there certainly were some excellent cattle sired by him.  Guiness himself was one of the better looking Irish sires but sometimes his calves looked like they had been made in a blacksmith shop.... or built by a committee. Again, even today, you will find Guinness in the background of many very good cattle.
 

Shorthorn_Junkie

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Thanks again for your input JIT.  ;D

I find your input to be very valuable, and it is much appreciated.  I have heard that Deerpark Leader 18th is known for producing some fantastic females.  Same thing with old Guinness.  I always thought that the bull "BBS Hope's Prime Time" was an excellent combination of both Guinness and Leader 18th's genetics. 

I hope you are able to market "Mist's Return" here in the states.  I would be interested in eventually purchasing some semen on him.  I would like to see some pictures of some of his calves if you have any that you can post on here.

I'm hoping to one day get me a couple of Irish Cows, or at least some Embryos out of some full Irish Shorthorns.

Right now I am running 2 blue roans on my brother in laws place.  We don't have a lot of pasture land to work with right now.  His place is 10 acres, and only 3 of it is pasture land, and the rest of it is thick woodland.  I'm hoping to either rent some more land or maybe clear off some more of his land, that is if my brother in law will let me.......LOL!

I've seen where you have mentioned Deerpark Leader 4th being one of the two best full Irish Bulls.  I have heard another guy who I know brag a lot about a son of his,"Sangamon Leader 4th" a lot.  I know that he is a double bred "Deerpark Leader 4th" son.  I assume you are probably familiar with him also.    What are your thoughts on this bull also? 

 
 
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