Question on the PHA Status.....

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RSC

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of Radioactive?  Another Board states that he is a Carrier.  I  can't get a list up that seems to show his status.  A close friend of mine bred him to one of his best cows and the cow hasn't been tested yet but her MGS is a PHA carrier.  He doesn't watch it like I do.  If he is a Carrier I told him to get the cow checked soon.  She is just bred for next Spring.

If she is a carrier bred to a carrier, is there anyway to ultrasound and tell if the calf is a defect?  If not,  would most people on here just abort the calf & not take the chance?

I knew this was the place to find out the answers I needed.

Thanks,

RSC
 

red

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Tony- SEK has him listed as a carrier for PHA. DL explained to me that a vet that knows what they're looking for can tell at about 5 months of pregnancy. I'd double check w/ her on that. I know it can't be found by ultrasound.

Good luck!

Red
 

DL

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RSC said:
of Radioactive?  Another Board states that he is a Carrier.  I  can't get a list up that seems to show his status.  A close friend of mine bred him to one of his best cows and the cow hasn't been tested yet but her MGS is a PHA carrier.  He doesn't watch it like I do.  If he is a Carrier I told him to get the cow checked soon.  She is just bred for next Spring.

If she is a carrier bred to a carrier, is there anyway to ultrasound and tell if the calf is a defect?  If not,  would most people on here just abort the calf & not take the chance?

I knew this was the place to find out the answers I needed.

Thanks,

RSC

RSC - Some people just like to play with fire - Radioactive is a carrier. If the cows dam is a carrier I see he has 2 choices - test the cow ASAP or abort the calf - if she is bred for next spring (by that you mean 2008) - I would cut my losses and dump the calf. If I  read "next spring"wrong,  correct me.

There is no way to identify calves as PHA calves by ultrasound  - at the time that you can get a view of the whole calf (and remember you are looking at a slice - like a slice of bread) - so basically less than 90 to 100 days there is no evidence that there is fluid accumulation (in PHA calves) - so basically the calf would look nornal. We think that fluid begins to accumulate after 5 or 6 months -  so the calf is way over the pelvis. Ultrasound basically looks at different ultrasonic wave reflections - since the calf is bathed in fluid you are seeing bone and other denser tissuesor contrasting densities, ie heart, liver,intestines etc  ...it would be nice, but is ain't possibl y now...don't know if it ever will be, let me know if that answers your questions, dl
 

Jill

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Ok, that really annoys me, this is why the Shorthorn breed needs to publish PHA carriers the same as it does with its TH carriers.
We flushed a donor last year that was a Black Dice/Vegas cow, her test was not back yet, so we decided to play it safe and use a "free" bull.  We flushed to Radio Active never even thinking he could be a PHA carrier.  I would never even have thought to test the heifer calf since neither of the parents had a carrier test, I guess even if you are dealing with someone you trust it is still buyer beware, they had better all be tested for both.
I hate to say it, but this is almost too confusing to try and manage, and why I say it had better get cleaned up fast.  I know what I am doing and what to look for and still get blindsided, imagine someone starting fresh. 
 

red

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Especially w/ their website down. They also have the genetic defect page way at the bottom of their site. Really hard to find. If SEK hadn't posted most of the information, it would be impossible to find.
I'm like you Jill, it seems the Shorthorns are really burying their head in the sand over PHA.

Red
 

RSC

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dragon lady said:
RSC said:
of Radioactive?  Another Board states that he is a Carrier.  I  can't get a list up that seems to show his status.  A close friend of mine bred him to one of his best cows and the cow hasn't been tested yet but her MGS is a PHA carrier.  He doesn't watch it like I do.  If he is a Carrier I told him to get the cow checked soon.  She is just bred for next Spring.

If she is a carrier bred to a carrier, is there anyway to ultrasound and tell if the calf is a defect?  If not,  would most people on here just abort the calf & not take the chance?

I knew this was the place to find out the answers I needed.

Thanks,

RSC

RSC - Some people just like to play with fire - Radioactive is a carrier. If the cows dam is a carrier I see he has 2 choices - test the cow ASAP or abort the calf - if she is bred for next spring (by that you mean 2008) - I would cut my losses and dump the calf. If I  read "next spring"wrong,  correct me.

There is no way to identify calves as PHA calves by ultrasound  - at the time that you can get a view of the whole calf (and remember you are looking at a slice - like a slice of bread) - so basically less than 90 to 100 days there is no evidence that there is fluid accumulation (in PHA calves) - so basically the calf would look nornal. We think that fluid begins to accumulate after 5 or 6 months -  so the calf is way over the pelvis. Ultrasound basically looks at different ultrasonic wave reflections - since the calf is bathed in fluid you are seeing bone and other denser tissuesor contrasting densities, ie heart, liver,intestines etc  ...it would be nice, but is ain't possibl y now...don't know if it ever will be, let me know if that answers your questions, dl

DL, I agree with you 100%,  If it was my cow I would be testing ASAP followed by aborting the calf if she came back as a carrier.  The problem is that people that are not educated about PHA & TH, do not understand the severity of the problem.  I have educated my friend as to the ugly situation He may encounter.  He plans on testing her.

Oh by the way,  She has just been ultrasounded bred for an early calf next year.(2008)

Thanks,

RSC

Thanks,
Tony
 

DL

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RSC - I forgot! A friend of mine who has had more than his share of vetting PHA calves in a PHA hot zone says that  when he palpates them in the fall (for spring calves) he can tell almost 100% who is going to have a PHA calf - there is excess fluid, the pregnancy "feels wierd" and the calf does not ballot like normal (ie you push on it id doesn't bounce back right. I don't know if most vets could call it like he can - he has had (much to his chagrin) tons of experience - would some ugly pictures help your friend? I could ship a few from the latest PHA calf - cow bred specifically to a carrier (market you know) because the cow was clean (ie we know the sire and the grand sire)......dl
 

red

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It never fails to amaze me that we can get bashed for trying to teach people about Th/PHA something like this happens. Both Tony's friend & Jill are feeling the affects of a lack of education & knowledge. Jill, who I feel is very knowledgable, gets caught unaware, as she put it, for someone totally new to this, it's is frightening.
Makes me glad to wear the tie-dyed PHA Patrol Shirt!

Red (welcome)
 

DL

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I think of PHA a lot like Johne's disease
- not my problem
- can't happen to me
- I would never buy a cow with that problem
- not a big deal, what's all the fuss
-it will eventually go away
-never heard of it - can't be much of a deal
- not a beef problem, dairy problem
-- etc etc etc (that would be the rant of the purposely uneducated)
- oh my God I bought a cow with Johne's disease why didn't anybody tell me
(or substitute Oh my God I had a PHA calf how could this happen to me??)

and of course someone somewhere is selling cows with JD or suspect of having JD or at high risk of having JD just like they are selling carriers to the unsuspecting - so the big guys do ok and the unsuspecting well......

and I think of the people who try to limit the education as (as ol' Eldridge Cleever would say) PART OF THE PROBLEM (not part of the solution)  - now kids lets all get along (OK I am being testy and sarcastic - but a day with a manure spreader will do that to a calm person - imagine the effect on ME!??? (clapping) (clapping) (clapping) 

looks like a topic for another post eh?
 
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