question regarding recips

[steer-guy]

ok, i dont want to sound ignorant here but i was talking to someone in the classifieds about recips. I've heard of people that use other people's recips for their embryos. I was wanting to know how that works. I happen to have embyos that my son won (good quality) but no recips.
well, i was given an example and it really didn't make much sense to me:

the person that furnishes the embyos, pays all the prep and vet bills including shots to have the embyos placed.
the ower of the cow pays for creep feed till calf is picked up and shots for calf.
the calf owner then pays $800 for the calf if a bull and $1200 if it's a heifer at time of pick up.

now to me, this seems crazy since the calf in a way already belongs to you.... you can buy darn nice recips for 1k or 1300.

maybe there is something that im not understanding.

 

[kanshow]

Our recip deal usually works something like this...    Recip owner pays for set up /synch costs & all the cow/calf care til weaning.  Embryo owner for putting the embryo in\ & then buys the calf back at weaning for market price plus a premium. 

 

[redwingfarm]

I have a little experience in working with embryos, and farming them out to others to put in and I can tell you clearly that over the past 4 years of doing this I have had MUCH MUCH  better results in the embryos I put in my own cows, we are running about 60% conception on embryos at home and less than 25% when they embryos are farmed out to others-therefore buy some good temperament and good milking cows and do it at home.  Have your local vet or embryo technician set you up on a good cidr or lutalyse program to sync to the cows

Furthermore on the prices you quoted for farmed out embryos are about right except I have never heard anyone charge more for heifer calves, and if you do work with someone else make sure that they are going to feed creep otherwise you'll be very dissapointed in what you pick up

Best advice do the work at home with your own cows, much less potential for bad surprizes and hard feelings, and also make sure that whoever puts the embrryos in for you is "certified" and acceptable to the breeder where the embryos originated

Good luck

 

[herefordfootball]

The thing that you're missing here is: The owner of the recip: Cares for the recip(feed,bedding, vet shots during pregnancy) There is a good chunk of change right there
                                                                                                  Calves out the recip(As we all know can be a long and stressful process) Their time is worth something too
                                                                                                  Provides creep for the calf
                                                                                                  Gives the calves shots(again their time is worth something)
                                                                                                  You dont have to provide the pasture the cows are on.
                                                                                                 
So you are paying for their services mainly. They are raising a calf to weaning age for you and "renting" you a cow to put your embryo. All in all, those really arent bad prices for healthy calves at weaning.
This option works best for those with limited time and pasture. Yes you can buy a recip for that price, but it just depends on what type of setup you have and what works best for you. I have never found anyone to do this for less than 800/calf. I've checked four places.

 

[PLKR]

I think it depends greatly on your ability to maintain and manage a group of recip cows. If you have the time and resources (pasture), you are probably better off owning the recip cows and caring for them (and their calves) as you see fit. But, you must also realize that you will have a fair number of open cows that need to be accounted for--something that is avoided with the cooperator herd situation. The only expense in the cooperator scenario would be the set-up cost, implantation, and of course your embryo--after that, she is the cooperator herd owners "problem".  If conception is poor with the coop herd (i.e. the 25% mentioned by redwingfarm), that is obviously a serious problem--lots of potentially good genetics "down the drain"--but I would hope that is not a common occurence.      As a side note, I was curious about the $800 vs. $1200 cost of bull calves vs. heifer calves--I know in our ET situation I would love to have 90% heifer calves, but I'm not sure why there is a $400 difference to the coop herd owner.....

 

[jmb1498]

I am running 90 recips just as described and my compensation is $1,100 for a weaned calf on July 1 (I am putting in Stiens vs Colored cattle, Colored cattle they are picked up in Oct for the same $) I went the Stien route to save on creep and allow for less pull down on my cows when pasture is short.

 

[kanshow]

The thing to keep in mind when you are using someone else's recip cows is that your embryo is costing them a calf for a year, so they should be compenstated likewise.    In being fair to that person, you should also let them know what to expect size wise on calves.   

 

[aj]

If you in therory are going to have a pha(splitting the cow in half) defect calf I assume it would be better to use someone else's cow. Just a theory I have.

 

[Show Heifer]

Keep in mind: Receps need the ultimate nutrition, mineral and care. They need to be run through the chute 4-5 times.

The herd I use has this equation:  Pay implant fee. Nothing else.
                                                      Pay 45 cents over top steer price for the first weekend in Oct as listed in a named paper.
                                                      If picked up earlier, weight is prorated until first weekend in Oct.
                                                      Anything over 100 birth weight is $5 per pound
                                                      They DO NOT accept any clubbie, maine, shorthorn embryos (for folks like you infered aj)
                                                      Anything proven to be a genetic defect is priced at the average of your live calves
                                                      Calf owner has to buy every calf.
                                                      They creep from 4 weeks, and rotate pastures to alfalfa mix every 2-3 weeks (as needed)
                                                      They vaccinate, weigh all calves.

Last year they ran 72% on over 120 embryos. They have been doing it awhile and know their stuff. Worth every penny IMO.

 

[kanshow]

They need to be run through the chute 4-5 times.

Good point, the recip owner has to have good facilities to do this.