Race Horses

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Dusty

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With breeding, new drugs, vet technology, more experience in training etc how come race horses have not really gotten any faster in the last half century?  I just went to the races for the first time last weekend so I guess it kind of had me wondering why the breeders and trainers can't get the top end horses faster over time....  By the way I had a blast at the races.  I think horse racing is great entertainment and I hope the sport stays around for a long time...  If you have never been to a race I encourage you to go.  I personally don't like horses and I still thought it was fun.  And, if you don't get carried away you can bet all afternoon and even if you never win a single ticket you'll only lose like $50.  Pretty cheap entertainment now-a-days...
 

showgirl2010

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Ya.  I did get into the triple crown real big.  But when Barbaro died I just forgot about all that.  My dads favorite was Smarty Jones, but I still love the story of Seabiscut. 

When does the triple crown start?  lol been a year so I forgot what the first race is even called.  Maybe the Belmont stakes? 

Jamie
 

Rustynail

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This is kind of a complicated question.  We have raced horse for 40 years and I can assure you that the horses are faster.  One of the main reasons you don't see horses breaking a lot of the records is because of the surfaces that they are running on.  In the 70's and 80' horses ran on tracks that were similar to a dirt road.  It pretty hard to keep  a horses legs in tact on that hard of a surface.  So the the tracks now are a lot softer with 6 to 10 inches of soft dirt which allow for longer careers on horses but slower times.

Also horse racing probably has the most extensive drug testing program that I have ever seen.  After a horse win a race, draws a random, or places in a high paying stakes race they go to the test barn.  They immediately take a blood sample and then you must give the horses drinks and walk them around until they take a urine sample.  Depending on what a horse tests positive for you can be fined and suspended from racing for a certain time.  The punishments very.  Repeat offenders can be banned from all race tracks for life.  They are really strict and serious when it comes to drugs in horse racing.

The Triple Crown starts this weekend with the Kentucky Derby.
 

knabe

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here's a neat link

http://www.eqb.com/images/eqb.com/default1.aspx?contentname=Gait%20Analysis#gamovie

one of the video's is extremely gross on the motion of the front forelegs

with cattle rarely running and filmed in slow motion, i imagine soundness to be extremely difficult to both see and communicate other than obvious clues such as toeing out, in, sickle hocked, bowed legs, stiff pasterns

monarco (sp?) displayed an extraordinary length of gait and minimal deviation with minimal flinging.  his hooves "appeared" at the apex of his movement with little wasted movement.

there was an ex football player who places dots on joints and films this and has tried to match parents to address deficiencies.  i don't remember who this is.  with the number of cattle rarely covering their tracks in the show ring, i can see this would be a general problem for commercial people not really caring about who is winning what show any more.  maybe the commercial guy doesn't care, i don't know.
 

kanshow

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Knabe, good video!  Thanks!!

We videotape our show puppies and watch in slow motion to detect any deviations in gait. 
 

r.n.reed

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  Since I'm new here I'll start with a subject I'm new to as well.I would say the big question in Horseracing right now is who will win the Derby,Any ideas?
 

Dusty

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I was doing some reading this morning..  It seems that virtually all modern thoroughbreds go back to three stallions that were imported to England from the middle east in the late 1600 to early 1700's.  Could this extremely narrow genetic base be the cause of no noticeable improvement in speed over the years.  In other words the gene pool is so small that they can't breed for speed anymore????
 

fluffer

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r.n.reed said:
  Since I'm new here I'll start with a subject I'm new to as well.I would say the big question in Horseracing right now is who will win the Derby,Any ideas?

(welcome)

I usually don't pick one until race day.  So much depends on the weather, soundess and the horses reaction to the crowd, jocky changes, etc.

Who do you like?

Fluffer
 

knabe

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those three stallions were arabs.  also, the focus has changed to "futurities" as oppossed to mature horse racing, same with cutting, same with cattle showing, where the money is.  i enjoy a little longer horse race, ie the belmont, but the problem there is that the distance between finishers gets extended, so the races are shortened to suit human, as the distance of 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 seems optimum to cluster aerobic muscled horses sufficient to be exciting.  the sprints are less, where the anaerobic muscled horses excel.  the 1/4 mile races are for horses almost with even less aerobic muscling.  the big heart gene through eclipse was probably the most influencial gene for speed at conventional distances.  i think secretariat had one of the heaviest hearts at 23 or 25 pounds with an average heart being 17 pounds or something.
 

r.n.reed

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Thanks Fluffer,I'm going with Colonel John,I liked the way he closed at the Santa Anita Derby,He had that look in his eye.
 

Dusty

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SWMO said:
Dusty can you name the three?

"All modern Thoroughbreds carry the genetics of three stallions imported into England from the Middle East in the late 17th and early 18th centuries: the Byerly Turk (1680s), the Darley Arabian (1704), and the Godolphin Arabian (1729)."-according to Wikipedia
 

r.n.reed

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From what I understand 2 of the three sire lines are hanging on by a very fine thread.
 

SWMO

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Ah you had to google it!

As a kid I was a huge fan of any book written about any kind of horse. Can you say horse crazy. Walter Farley,  The ponies on an island off the East Coast that I absolutely refuse to try to spell w/o looking it up and any western esp those written by Zane Grey.

The sad thing I suppose is that we all grow up at some point.  With all I do I just cannot justify owning a horse.  I have found that over the years the time is just not there to keep a good horse "good".
 

oakbar

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SWMO--I believe you're referring to "Misty of Chincoteague"---I think I spelled that right.  Sounds like we read a lot of the same books as youngsters.  I think I read every Walter Farley book ever written including one my favorites-- the obscure "Island Stallion".  I was also a sucker for the outdoors/hunting novels of Jim Kjelgaard--I think I read most of those as well.

 

Barrel Racer

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AHH... a topic near and dear to my heart  ;D

If any of you guys have ESPN classic, they are doing an hour special every day this week to a triple crown winner.  Monday was Citation, last night was Secretariat, today is Affirmed I think.  I'm thinking it's on about 7 p.m. or so (thank goodness for the Tivo). 

Not sure of the derby winner, I normally have to see the horse first.  Hubby and I go to the two tracks in Indiana over the summer a few times (we'll be there more next summer with Turbo's racing debut), it's just amazing.  Hubby shoes and does theraputic shoeing working with a vet, so he's really into lameness.  We tried betting on the most sound horses and never won, switched over and started betting on the most lame and started winning....go figure..
I picked a trifecta box in a QH stakes race one night, I talked hubby into betting only like 5 bucks total I think, he wanted to just put down 20 and I talked him out of it....too bad...that 5 bucks made us almost 300.

I've done a lot of research into the large heart (X factor) gene.  My mare has two documented carriers in the right spots to make her 25% probablity of being a double copy mare. 
 

knabe

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Barrel Racer said:
W
e tried betting on the most sound horses and never won, switched over and started betting on the most lame and started winning....go figure..

king ranch's triple crown winner was a club foot i think, and wasn't the horse who beat war admiral was not real smooth gaited, sea biscuit.
 

Dusty

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With the inbreeding that occurs in race horses are there any genetic defects that affects race horses like TH and PHA in cattle????  You would think that breeding for a single trait in horses would adverse affects the same way breeding for bone, butt and hair has affected cattle???
 
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