Looking for what I guess you would call a co operator herd to raise embryo calves. Would like them to calve between DEC 1 and Feb 15th. Early January being ideal. Thinking $1500/ live calf with the owner of the cows being responsible with all costs other than the eggs obviously. What's the norm, that's a lot more than I used to get paid to do it, but the market is much higher and I don't want the eggs put in mediocre cows. What about a bonus for high weaning weights as a incentive to insure they're put in good cows? Eggs are purebred Simmy, bought several packages of 4, guaranteeing 2 pregnancies. Advice and thoughts would be appreciated!
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Gargan
Well-known member
as a thought on using commercial cows as receipts, given today's cattle market - you line up your cows to receive the embryos with the cost and time of processing which can be substantial - then process them again with good amount of time and effort for someone to put in the embryos - hold rate is say maybe 60% - so no premium on the no-holds and a feeder calf is born 21 days later and say 50-60 pound lighter for market - this is opposed to just turning out a bull without all of the processing time and costs and you have generally heavier calves to market - given the market prices of $2+ 5-weights I really don't know why anyone would bother wanting to use their cows for some other person's embryos - you might make a couple hundred bucks at the risk of losing a cow to a large birth weight, as most people don't want to put clubby embryos in their own cows, on the roughly have that hold an embryo, but lose a good amount of the ones that don't and you are out a good amount of time and labor - to me $1500 is not enough with some markets selling 7-weight feeders at nearly that - just my thoughts on the matter -
RyanChandler
Well-known member
I'd let nearly anyone use my commercial cows for $1500. I've never even sold a commercial calf for a grand so that would be an ample premium for me. Sold a 515@197/cwt a few weeks ago- but didn't quite hit the grand mark. I don't feed my cows like the folks having the birth weight issues so I don't see that as a deterrent to me. Still, I would want to know how they were bred though.
Sold a package of 30 - 905lbs Simmental x char steers last week here in AB. Sold for $167.50. After deductions, I took home $1492 per calf. Market strong - lots of 400 weight calves coming to town early due to strong market and cold winter so far. Guys with grain havent moved alot of crop and need cash flow - so calves held for grasser market coming to town now. Fall run numbers in February. 400 weights running anywhere from a low of $240 - $290.
Sorry but for $1500 a calf there is no way I would screw around with it. The arrangement I have is to split the calves - then there is something in it for both of us. Good luck
Sorry but for $1500 a calf there is no way I would screw around with it. The arrangement I have is to split the calves - then there is something in it for both of us. Good luck
RyanChandler
Well-known member
Yeah of course it depends where you are located. 9 weight calves here would bring $20-$30 less, and that's after they had been on full feed for three months post weaning. I would expect to kick ET calves at 4-5 months at most. No point in keeping that caliber of a calf on a cow through August in Texas.
hamburgman
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XBAR
Are you in an area where no 5weight steers bring $2? Around here some 5weights have been over 2.20 with some at 2.25, just wondering.
Are you in an area where no 5weight steers bring $2? Around here some 5weights have been over 2.20 with some at 2.25, just wondering.
RyanChandler
Well-known member
5-600 brought 165-205/cwt here last week.
$1500 is an additional 50% on the table.
$1500 is an additional 50% on the table.
Thanks for the input. I was thinking that would be a $300 bonus, figuring the very best cows weaning off 600 pounders at 5-6 months at 1.80 that's actually a 400+ bonus. Not trying to screw anyone or tell anyone what their animals are worth but trying to figure out the point where I go find nice pairs that would take a egg. I think a nice 6 year old cow could be bought for 2000-2200. Her salvage value is 13-1600 clip off the calf in 5 months for $800 and you almost have your recip for free
Steer4Caddy
Well-known member
Have a friend that does a lot of that and is at 1750 now. He's full up on what he can do currently.
CAB
Well-known member
The calves that we sold this year, ( everything that wasn't kept as either a bull or replacement heifer) averaged $1407.00. I couldn't begin to make it worthwhile for $1500.00. I think you should jump on XBAR's offer and see how it goes. I think that it's the cheapest offer you may come across.
RyanChandler
Well-known member
JimF said:
All my shorthorn xs have been solid colored -black or red- thus far. But that has nothing to do w/ what we're talking about. The prices I quoted are what the #1 calves are bringing in North Central Texas.
No one is comparing apples to apples here. It seems as if a few on here are trying to compare it to what 900lb yearling are bringing. The comparison needs to be what you're commercial calves would bring at 4-5 months old. If I were on the other end of the deal, this is when I would want my ET calves. Even at $2/lb on a 500lb calf, $1500 is 50% more. You folks are telling me 50% more isn't enough?
you only get that on the 50 to 60% that take and make it to weaning and that is the best that you will do - you are out all of the expenses and time involved in working them probably 3 times - that cost could easily be $50+ per cow if you need hired labor - then your calves that are clean ups after they recycle and don't hold the embryo are 50 to 60 pounds, or more, lighter than if you turned out bulls instead of working the cows the extra times - plus if you have limited bull power and say 10 cows recycle at the same time, probably will happen, and he does not get all of them bred on the first recycle then you lose $200 or more per head - so you are out the time and processing expense and lose several dollars per head on the ones that don't hold - also some people might send you some grade B embryos that they bought cheaper and your embryo hold rate is only 20% as they want the A grade embryos in their own cows and you lose big time - plus these ET calves can often be larger at birth, sometimes much larger, and you lose a cow or two - as one person said before it is simply not worth it, the owner of the cows assumes the majority of the risk and can realize a very limited reward - not good business -
RyanChandler
Well-known member
What expense and time in working them 3 times are you referring to? I thought the initial assumption was that the owner of the embryos paid for all costs, from syringes to any additional labor hands they might need while working the cattle, leading up to and associated w/ getting the embryo implanted? If that is not the case, then no wonder there's the confusion.JimF said:
To hedge the risk, I would want an arrangement where the embryo owner leased all my cows for a set price and all the calves were his regardless of whether they were one of their ET calves or not. I shouldn't have to assume risk regarding the quality of the embryo or the quality of the technician.
Additionally, I sell calves at a certain weight or a certain age, not a predetermined date. I don't follow the thought that I would be losing money because my calves would be lighter (when sold). size/age dictates when I sell, not the date.
XBAR - I'm telling you that if you are a commercial operation of any size (truckload of calves or more), have your pastures stocked correctly, and are raising the right kind of cattle (meaning not crap) that you (1) should not be selling your calves off the cow at 500 lbs and (2) those calves should never see a sale barn. If you can do all of that, prices in north central Texas are much better than you think which makes the $1500 recip deal not worth the trouble.
I don't remember what age calves this guy was talking about, but you put your "money" - meaning feed - into a fall calving herd in our region from the months of mid Nov through mid March. Once you spend that money, you are leaving free gain on the table if you wean commercial calves that young instead of keeping them on the cow through June or so when your additional expense is very minimal. You would be weaning 650 lb calves instead of 500 lbers. There is a whole world of cattle buyers out there that doesn't involve a sale barn.
If you are having embryo babies for someone, they aren't content with a minimal input operation. As far as I'm concerned, if I own/lease the land, own the cows, and have the money and time to feed them, letting someone with embryos worth a few hundred dollars each is letting someone else's tail wag my dog. Don't undervalue your collective assets.
I don't remember what age calves this guy was talking about, but you put your "money" - meaning feed - into a fall calving herd in our region from the months of mid Nov through mid March. Once you spend that money, you are leaving free gain on the table if you wean commercial calves that young instead of keeping them on the cow through June or so when your additional expense is very minimal. You would be weaning 650 lb calves instead of 500 lbers. There is a whole world of cattle buyers out there that doesn't involve a sale barn.
If you are having embryo babies for someone, they aren't content with a minimal input operation. As far as I'm concerned, if I own/lease the land, own the cows, and have the money and time to feed them, letting someone with embryos worth a few hundred dollars each is letting someone else's tail wag my dog. Don't undervalue your collective assets.
XBAR - on these recip deals the embryo owners want the recip ownes to pay for everything once the embryos are put in - sometimes they try to make you share implanting costs. And you have to spend a bunch of money getting your cows set up to achieve a high success (more feed than normal, drugs, etc).
And then they want you to creep feed the heck out of the calves - which means you effectively have to creep feed the non-embryo calves unless you want to go the trouble of splitting them off.
Then they only want to pay for the embryo calves. And usually there are arguments over whether a sorry calf at the age border is really an embryo calf or not.
And then they want you to creep feed the heck out of the calves - which means you effectively have to creep feed the non-embryo calves unless you want to go the trouble of splitting them off.
Then they only want to pay for the embryo calves. And usually there are arguments over whether a sorry calf at the age border is really an embryo calf or not.
as usual xbar you seem to be the confused one as it seems that you don't know what is involved in setting up cows for successful ET, the costs and the number of times through the chute or the general terms of contract receipts - so don't do like Obama and infer that someone else is confused - to be successful it is not simple or cheap - the same goes for marketing feeder cattle or current pricing - don't expose your lack of knowledge as you normally do on most subjects which I generally ignore and rarely ever post anything - my last comments but I sure that you will want the last word, as usual -
