Recipient Conception Problems

[bigdogcattle]

We are relatively new to the donor program. Over the last few years we have been trying to improve the conception rate of our recipient cows. This last year we put in 3 embryos from one donor and 11 from another. We got all three of the first donor but only two from the second. The cows were flushed by the same company at the same time and the embryos were put in by the same technician. Does anyone have any thoughts as to why the conception rate of the second donor might be so bad?

 

[BTDT]

Over the course of many years, I have come to the conclusion that some embryos from certain cows just do not "take".  I have also realized that some cow give embryos that stick with most certainty.  I really can't explain the science behind it, but have found it to be true.  Just like some cows will NEVER take an embryo and some cows will NEVER stick AI'ing. 

Sorry to hear of your bad luck.

 

[bigdogcattle]

Thanks for the info. Anyone have any details on why some donor's embryos don't seem to be as high of a conception rate?

 

[Mill Iron A]

Different donors react to the hormone treatment in different ways. I worked as an E.T. technician for awhile and in that case we would throttle back the amount of F.S.H. being given and that usually helped. There are also a lot of outside factors that could be messing with conception rates. In the cattle deal in general we must realize that our sample sizes are so small it's hard to draw conclusions. This seems compelling but remember most statistics tells us minimum sample size needs to be 250+ to make it relevant. Not many in the US have the luxury of those kinds of numbers and I understand that but the conception might not have been as bad as you think if you throw in there that maybe 2 or 3 of the recips didn't eat enough/ate too much/changed their diet/etc etc etc.

 

[bigdogcattle]

One of the concerns we have had is that we breed in June and we are going from hay to irrigated grass in the May/June time frame with the weather changes. Would it be better to keep feeding hay to try and keep the diet the same? If so, how long after breeding should we continue?

 

[Mill Iron A]

You are better off to make any diet changes 3 weeks plus before breeding. If you can't your plan sounds good but can you make them eat it? Again it would be ideal to go 3 weeks after the change but really doubt you can get them to eat it/want to feed that much longer. Depending on how washy the grass is ive heard and seen performance advantages of offering free choice hay or ground up straw to cattle on short irrigated grass pastures just to get total dry matter into them. If you can't make them eat the straw you could also try a free choice liquid supplement either on the hay or in a trough. This would do 2 things.....1. Drive them to eat more dry matter ie. hay or straw and 2. Provide them a nutrient dense package to keep them going. One of the biggest problems going from a dry hay diet to a wet irrigated grass diet is cattle are literally not used to eating that much so they do not get enough dry matter and gains go down which also negatively effects breed up. At the range beef cow symposium there was a study presented done by University of Wyoming and I believe another college in Virginia? Anyway, it is along these same lines. All that information will be up on the press releases. Hope this helps.

 

[firesweepranch]

Are your recips on a good mineral program? With those small numbers, it might just be the way the eggs landed, so to speak, and not have anything to do with the donor eggs alone.
We have had some great results from the VitaFerm Concept-aide. I mean really good results. Our cows (including recips) are returning to heat sooner, and our conception rate has gone up. There is so much that needs to be accounted for from diet to handling to condition. I know it is statistically small, but we put in 4 eggs in the fall and so far three this spring, and ALL SEVEN have stuck in the recips, ALL in the second heat after calving from 40 to 60 days post calving date. We went on Vitaferm Conceptaide last September. Our AI conception has gone up also.
With the expense of the embryo, we figure a little more for a better mineral is a small drop if we get more eggs to stick!

 

[RankeCattleCo]

FireSweep, how much is that mineral for a bag?

 

[Shorthorns4us]

After reading the comment on Vitaferm Concept Aid-- I did some looking at their website.

It is recommending that you feed it to adult  cows, breeding heifers and breeding bulls.  Is this mineral going to affect growing baby calves if you would want to put it out in a free choice mineral feeder in your pastures during breeding season?  The first thought in my mind was making young heifer calves come into heat???  I know that is a stretch, but you always hear about someone who gets a heifer calf bred by the bull during the summer while she is still on her mommy.

Thanks
EF

 

[obie105]

We use it. It won't make anything come into heat. It's just really high quality mineral. Which helps with conception rates.

 

[bigdogcattle]

We have been using the VitaFerm Concept-aide for the last two years. We put the cows on it in March, breed middle of June and take them off by the end of July. Not sure if we should be keeping them on it longer??

 

[Doc]

We finally got someone in area to start carrying the Vita ferm last fall. We switched to it then. We just switched them to Vita Ferm Concept Aid w/ hi mag. We feed it to everything. Year round. One thing I have noticed this spring is how quick they slip their afterbirth. Out of 32 calves since the 1st of this year , I have not had one cow take over 3 or 4 hours. 

 

[firesweepranch]

We just switched to the high mag, IGR formula for the flies. ALL of our cattle are on it, including the babies. I have not noticed any early heats, I am sure it will not cause that. It is just really good mineral that has better absorption rates, and fills in the holes that a generic mineral might leave. It is not a miracle maker, all the pieces of the puzzle have to be there to make it work (good nutrition, good heat detection, good husbandry), but I think that it is far and above superior to other minerals that are out there.
As far as how much, I am not really sure without looking at the receipt, which is not in front of me. I bought 10 bags, which will last me for quiet some time (probably 20 weeks, maybe longer). I know the basic formula (without the IGR and high mag) was around $35 a bag. But don't quote me on it!

 

[Doc]

I know we pay $33.35 a bag for the regular Concept Aid. Haven't got the bill on the Hi-mag yet.

 

[bigdogcattle]

Another question. We also have our normal AI cattle on the same mineral/feed and our conception for AI calves are really pretty good. I would think that if my conception for the AI program is good so should the donor/embryo program. Am I think about that correct?

 

[RyanChandler]

We just switched to the high mag, IGR formula for the flies. ALL of our cattle are on it, including the babies. I have not noticed any early heats, I am sure it will not cause that. It is just really good mineral that has better absorption rates, and fills in the holes that a generic mineral might leave. It is not a miracle maker, all the pieces of the puzzle have to be there to make it work (good nutrition, good heat detection, good husbandry), but I think that it is far and above superior to other minerals that are out there.
As far as how much, I am not really sure without looking at the receipt, which is not in front of me. I bought 10 bags, which will last me for quiet some time (probably 20 weeks, maybe longer). I know the basic formula (without the IGR and high mag) was around $35 a bag. But don't quote me on it!

about $17.50/week -  how many cows does this cover?

 

[AI Man]

i have been feeding Kent the last couple years  they have a breeder aid mineral  i have been seeing %75 plus on all my receipt and AI cows    how much different is the concept aid the the breeder aid

 

[firesweepranch]

We just switched to the high mag, IGR formula for the flies. ALL of our cattle are on it, including the babies. I have not noticed any early heats, I am sure it will not cause that. It is just really good mineral that has better absorption rates, and fills in the holes that a generic mineral might leave. It is not a miracle maker, all the pieces of the puzzle have to be there to make it work (good nutrition, good heat detection, good husbandry), but I think that it is far and above superior to other minerals that are out there.
As far as how much, I am not really sure without looking at the receipt, which is not in front of me. I bought 10 bags, which will last me for quiet some time (probably 20 weeks, maybe longer). I know the basic formula (without the IGR and high mag) was around $35 a bag. But don't quote me on it!

about $17.50/week -  how many cows does this cover?

We have 22 cows, 3 heavy bred heifers, and miscellaneous calves from fall to recent in the group. We also put out loose stock salt.

 

[creativecattle]

We have been using the VitaFerm Concept-aide for the last two years. We put the cows on it in March, breed middle of June and take them off by the end of July. Not sure if we should be keeping them on it longer??

The company recommends feeding is 30 days before calving and through breeding. Some people choose to keep them on it year round which is okay too.