SAS Sweetmeat & BMR Explorer

[SEA]

I have heard some good things about the Simmental bulls SAS Sweetmeat and BMR Explorer.  Anyone ever use these bulls on black hided clubby type cows or Angus cows to make replacement club calf females?  How are their daughters working?  Thanks! 

 

[LN]

I have progeny by both bulls at my place. Both will make really nice females.

Sweetmeat may add a little more skin on the neck and sheath than you would like for producing club calves. He certainly adds muscle, body depth and structural correctness. His calves have great dispositions as well.

Explorer makes super attractive females and the bull calves are pretty nice too. He won't add any muscle but he does everything else well. The calves are a little spookier than average but nothing that's unacceptable. He does carry the spotting gene so if you have cows that carry the gene you could get a painted up calf, that's the reason I'm not continuing use on him.

 

[Steer4Caddy]

I used some sweat meat on some clubby type cows last year and have calves now.  I would agree on the extra skin and ear but that's why I used him also.  Just good sound simmi genetics. 

 

[Simmgal]

I have progeny by both bulls at my place. Both will make really nice females.

Sweetmeat may add a little more skin on the neck and sheath than you would like for producing club calves. He certainly adds muscle, body depth and structural correctness. His calves have great dispositions as well.

Explorer makes super attractive females and the bull calves are pretty nice too. He won't add any muscle but he does everything else well. The calves are a little spookier than average but nothing that's unacceptable. He does carry the spotting gene so if you have cows that carry the gene you could get a painted up calf, that's the reason I'm not continuing use on him.

I did not know that Explorer was a Spotter! But, then again, I didn't know one of my best cows carried the gene too until I bred her to Built Right..haha ;D

I agree with the descriptions of the bulls you put and I have also seen some Explorer calves with a little bit more leather as well. He gives them a nice fuzzy look and good showy style too.

 

[LN]

I did not know that Explorer was a Spotter! But, then again, I didn't know one of my best cows carried the gene too until I bred her to Built Right..haha ;D

Me neither until I found out the hard way . If you notice in the 2012 spring Genex sire directory Explorer now has a footnote that he carries the spotting gene. You can thank me for that  ;D

 

[Simmgal]

I did not know that Explorer was a Spotter! But, then again, I didn't know one of my best cows carried the gene too until I bred her to Built Right..haha ;D

Me neither until I found out the hard way . If you notice in the 2012 spring Genex sire directory Explorer now has a footnote that he carries the spotting gene. You can thank me for that  ;D

Well, thank you, because I was going to purchase some semen on Explorer to breed to some red or white bellied cattle! That would have been interesting!

 

[SEA]

I have progeny by both bulls at my place. Both will make really nice females.

Sweetmeat may add a little more skin on the neck and sheath than you would like for producing club calves. He certainly adds muscle, body depth and structural correctness. His calves have great dispositions as well.

Explorer makes super attractive females and the bull calves are pretty nice too. He won't add any muscle but he does everything else well. The calves are a little spookier than average but nothing that's unacceptable. He does carry the spotting gene so if you have cows that carry the gene you could get a painted up calf, that's the reason I'm not continuing use on him.

So LN,

How would the progeny of a bull with the "Spotter Gene"  x Angus dam be affected? 

How does Explorer work on Angus cows?

 

[leanbeef]

The spot gene is recessive and Angus cattle don't carry a spot gene; therefore, a Simmental x Angus mating will not produce spots. You CAN get a calf with a spot gene, and if you mate that animal with another spot gene carrier, then you will get spots / stripes.

 

[kfacres]

The spot gene is recessive and Angus cattle don't carry a spot gene; therefore, a Simmental x Angus mating will not produce spots. You CAN get a calf with a spot gene, and if you mate that animal with another spot gene carrier, then you will get spots / stripes.

something the color crazed club calf people would want to take advantage of? 

is there a list of spotter bulls?  Where does it stem?  Lucky Dice is about the only one I know of off top of my head...  Does this come from the Fleck influence?

 

[LN]

The spot gene is recessive and Angus cattle don't carry a spot gene; therefore, a Simmental x Angus mating will not produce spots. You CAN get a calf with a spot gene, and if you mate that animal with another spot gene carrier, then you will get spots / stripes.

something the color crazed club calf people would want to take advantage of? 

is there a list of spotter bulls?  Where does it stem?  Lucky Dice is about the only one I know of off top of my head...  Does this come from the Fleck influence?

Correct, it comes from the traditional color patterned Simmentals that were bred up to be black. There isn't really a list but semen companies are pretty good about listing bulls that carry the gene. The Simmental Assoc is working on a DNA marker test for the spotting gene.

 

[SEA]

To those of you who have experience using BMR Exporer-SM onto Angus cows, and have kept replacemet females that are in production...

How does Explored work on Angus cows for making replacement females for Club Calf production?  ???

Thanks!

 

[leanbeef]

The spot gene is recessive and Angus cattle don't carry a spot gene; therefore, a Simmental x Angus mating will not produce spots. You CAN get a calf with a spot gene, and if you mate that animal with another spot gene carrier, then you will get spots / stripes.

something the color crazed club calf people would want to take advantage of? 

is there a list of spotter bulls?  Where does it stem?  Lucky Dice is about the only one I know of off top of my head...  Does this come from the Fleck influence?

Correct, it comes from the traditional color patterned Simmentals that were bred up to be black. There isn't really a list but semen companies are pretty good about listing bulls that carry the gene. The Simmental Assoc is working on a DNA marker test for the spotting gene.

Exactly... I think a lot of your baldy bulls are going to be spot carriers. We don't know how it works yet, but I suspect the spot gene is somehow connected to an animal having SOME white, even if they're not "spotted" or "striped" or "flowered" in color. You rarely see a spot carrier with NO white. On the other hand, a white foot, a white belly, a white tail, or white on the head make me very suspicious that an animal probably carries a gene for spotting. It will be very interesting to see how that plays out, especially since the blaze faced and baldy cattle are kinda becoming a trademark for the breed. Lucky Dice had just a little white on his sheath, and yes, he was a spotter. Lucky Strike was another solid black bull that proved to be a spot carrier, earning him the nickname "Lucky Stripe" and getting him blackballed from most breeders' programs!

There are a lot of bulls proven to be non spotters, and it was a major issue when everybody wanted everything to be black so calves wouldn't get docked at the sale barn. I'm guessing now with the popularity of the baldy cattle, it will become an issue for the breed again. People are breeding baldies to baldies, and that's asking for spots in my opinion. Hopefully, the genetic marking research will be fruitful in a relatively short amount of time. I've heard they're having a hard time finding the cattle they need because nobody is making spotted ones now.

 

[Simmgal]

Built Right is a spotter...Found that out the hard way. Does anyone have a list of the bulls that are Spotters? Is that something I could find on the Simmental Website?

 

[kfacres]

The spot gene is recessive and Angus cattle don't carry a spot gene; therefore, a Simmental x Angus mating will not produce spots. You CAN get a calf with a spot gene, and if you mate that animal with another spot gene carrier, then you will get spots / stripes.

something the color crazed club calf people would want to take advantage of? 

is there a list of spotter bulls?  Where does it stem?  Lucky Dice is about the only one I know of off top of my head...  Does this come from the Fleck influence?

Correct, it comes from the traditional color patterned Simmentals that were bred up to be black. There isn't really a list but semen companies are pretty good about listing bulls that carry the gene. The Simmental Assoc is working on a DNA marker test for the spotting gene.

Exactly... I think a lot of your baldy bulls are going to be spot carriers. We don't know how it works yet, but I suspect the spot gene is somehow connected to an animal having SOME white, even if they're not "spotted" or "striped" or "flowered" in color. You rarely see a spot carrier with NO white. On the other hand, a white foot, a white belly, a white tail, or white on the head make me very suspicious that an animal probably carries a gene for spotting. It will be very interesting to see how that plays out, especially since the blaze faced and baldy cattle are kinda becoming a trademark for the breed. Lucky Dice had just a little white on his sheath, and yes, he was a spotter. Lucky Strike was another solid black bull that proved to be a spot carrier, earning him the nickname "Lucky Stripe" and getting him blackballed from most breeders' programs!

There are a lot of bulls proven to be non spotters, and it was a major issue when everybody wanted everything to be black so calves wouldn't get docked at the sale barn. I'm guessing now with the popularity of the baldy cattle, it will become an issue for the breed again. People are breeding baldies to baldies, and that's asking for spots in my opinion. Hopefully, the genetic marking research will be fruitful in a relatively short amount of time. I've heard they're having a hard time finding the cattle they need because nobody is making spotted ones now.

I think you are right on, from what I have seen. 

I was going to say what about Lucky Dice, as I don't remember seeing any white on him- but perhaps I didn't study his sheath close enough-- come to think about it, not sure that I've ever seen a color picture of him. 

I know when they were promoting Rendition, the bigger promotion fact, was the white ticking on his rear legs-  Woody kept telling me about some old timer who always claimed a bull with two white rear feet, would throw baldy's out of 90% of the Angus cows-- that meant the white face would be fairly dominate, as opposed to these partial blaze faced bulls who were solid black and unpredicatlale in terms of creating blaze faced offspring. 

 

[husker1]

didn't realize that Rendition had white on his back feet....thanks for the information.

 

[kfacres]

didn't realize that Rendition had white on his back feet....thanks for the information.

just ticking..

 

[leanbeef]

The spot gene is recessive and Angus cattle don't carry a spot gene; therefore, a Simmental x Angus mating will not produce spots. You CAN get a calf with a spot gene, and if you mate that animal with another spot gene carrier, then you will get spots / stripes.

something the color crazed club calf people would want to take advantage of? 

is there a list of spotter bulls?  Where does it stem?  Lucky Dice is about the only one I know of off top of my head...  Does this come from the Fleck influence?

Correct, it comes from the traditional color patterned Simmentals that were bred up to be black. There isn't really a list but semen companies are pretty good about listing bulls that carry the gene. The Simmental Assoc is working on a DNA marker test for the spotting gene.

Exactly... I think a lot of your baldy bulls are going to be spot carriers. We don't know how it works yet, but I suspect the spot gene is somehow connected to an animal having SOME white, even if they're not "spotted" or "striped" or "flowered" in color. You rarely see a spot carrier with NO white. On the other hand, a white foot, a white belly, a white tail, or white on the head make me very suspicious that an animal probably carries a gene for spotting. It will be very interesting to see how that plays out, especially since the blaze faced and baldy cattle are kinda becoming a trademark for the breed. Lucky Dice had just a little white on his sheath, and yes, he was a spotter. Lucky Strike was another solid black bull that proved to be a spot carrier, earning him the nickname "Lucky Stripe" and getting him blackballed from most breeders' programs!

There are a lot of bulls proven to be non spotters, and it was a major issue when everybody wanted everything to be black so calves wouldn't get docked at the sale barn. I'm guessing now with the popularity of the baldy cattle, it will become an issue for the breed again. People are breeding baldies to baldies, and that's asking for spots in my opinion. Hopefully, the genetic marking research will be fruitful in a relatively short amount of time. I've heard they're having a hard time finding the cattle they need because nobody is making spotted ones now.

I think you are right on, from what I have seen. 

I was going to say what about Lucky Dice, as I don't remember seeing any white on him- but perhaps I didn't study his sheath close enough-- come to think about it, not sure that I've ever seen a color picture of him. 

I know when they were promoting Rendition, the bigger promotion fact, was the white ticking on his rear legs-  Woody kept telling me about some old timer who always claimed a bull with two white rear feet, would throw baldy's out of 90% of the Angus cows-- that meant the white face would be fairly dominate, as opposed to these partial blaze faced bulls who were solid black and unpredicatlale in terms of creating blaze faced offspring. 

The white face is dominant ie Hereford x Angus = black baldy. If the blaze gene is as simple as most other cattle color genetics, then the blaze seems to be dominant as well, but most of these cattle are out of one solid parent meaning they would be heterozygous for the gene that causes the blaze. I had a solid black calf yesterday out of two blaze faced parents, and I know that both parents have one solid black parent meaning there would have been a 1 in 4 chance the calf would not have a blaze, assuming my theories are close to correct. It's interesting to me what might be involved in determining the amount of white or the shape of the mark...

I do think there is something to the white on the feet, tail and belly in connection with the potential to throw white or produce a blaze. I have five Renditions, all out of solid faced cows...2 stripe faced bulls out of Angus cows; two solid black heifers out of Angus cows; and one baldy bull with white tail and white belly out of an Angus x Shorthorn cow. If we had a bull that was homozygous for a blaze gene, I think he might be pretty popular right now! And that bull would probably also throw a bunch of spots because a lot of breeders see what they see in one animal's phenotype and make make their breeding decisions based on best case scenario, not the laws of probability or possibility. I guess so goes the saying, "No guts, no glory." I like to say, "No reckless decisions, less train wrecks!"

 

[kfacres]

sounds like your blazed face... was sex linked... (clapping)

 

[kfacres]

does this spotter gene need expressed in 2 copies? or is it dominate enough to only need one?

 

[LN]

It's a recessive trait and works like horned/polled and red/black. For it to show up in the phenotype both parents must pass on the recessive allele.